I saw this today too and rather than fixate on the tragedy decided to celebrate the Saudi woman closing her business rather than conform to the law insisting she take on a man as a director-general http://www.gulfnews.com/business/General/10310154.html I pray that the Lebanese woman who lost her baby in the accident will heal in time. A very sad story.
so who is the successor of the foetus? I guess Dubai is becoming more Islamic and implementing Sharia law to its full stupid extend. When is the ban on women driving going to come into force?
Insulting Islam is a criminal act by law and could lead to jail Anonymous 11:06 and under the Prohibited Content Categories of the UAE's internet Access Management Policy. Where is the hypocrite samuraisam?
proud emirati: It would be great if you had actually ever read the terms and conditions to posting on this blog (they're written right above the box where you post your comment)
"By posting a comment on this blog you agree that you are solely responsible for its content and that you are up to date on the laws of the country you are posting from and that your post abides by them."I will only delete comments that are obscenely racist or obscenely hate filled.
Dont like it? Leave! Terminal 3 is HUGE, and is just asking for you!
My OPINION... the unborn have right as well. Thankfully, I can live in a place where the laws reflect my opinions, as opposed to a place that has opposite opinions fighting about the same old things for 20+ years.
Axonsaz, in the US, legally, this has more than one answer. Under the law, the fetus is not regarded as having its own "life" until it is separate from its mother. Therefore, a fetus can never be a "human being" because it becomes one when it is born. However, in some jurisdictions, it is regarded as a separate being if the mother is attacked. So, if the mother was killed, the killer is sometimes charged with double homicide. A true court case & verdict in the state of New York. Also, please note that you are stepping into a legal and moral quagmire.
PS: the next time, please, could you could come up with a 'mature' opening statement, because you sort of killed debate right at the beginning.
Rosh, since when do we take the US as a benchmark? In Islam an inborn baby who is older than 4 months is considered a human being with a soul, therefore its death is considered a murder.
PE: I didn't say or even imply, the UAE (or anyone) should benchmark its laws to that in the US. Please, read my comment again. I did say, in some cases (even in the west where abortion is legal) 'murder' of an unborn is considered homicide.
That said, what if the UAE mom accidentally slipped and fell down the stairs? Would you call her a murderer? Isn't murder (more so) if she 'premeditated' with an 'intent' harm or kill? How could an accident be 'murder' especially in this instance - unless you know something more of the case?
Yes, I am willing to admit I have seen a lot of pregnant woman doing a lot of stupid things, but then I have seen a lot of mothers doing stupider things. The mother who lets her little kid ride in the front seat with no childseat/belt buckle, the mother who thinks its cute to let her kid hang halfway out of an open window, the mother who smokes in front of the pram, even dropping ashes on the pram... I can infact go on. There is a so called "heavily pregnant" school teacher in my kids school, who at 13.55 everyday, thinks she is Fernando Alonso. Whereas it is tragic that this lady has lost the baby,and it is indeed a very high price to pay. But what if and when: HAD she driven into some pregnant woman and caused her to lose her baby. Would then the verdict be okay? What if the driver had in fact been male. Would then the verdict to pay blood money be okay? Just because nature has biologically created a woman to reproduce, it does not by default mean that she can be a "mother". Whether she was reckless and stupid, or it was purely an accident only she knows the answer to that. For most of us to even conjure such an image is heartbreaking, but across the world everyday, women are having abortions. Are they not mothers too? As far as this case goes, perhaps it could be a wakeup call to all these women who think being pregnant is about going to Mothercare and buying cutesy outfits.
it still isn't clear who the blood money is going to go to. the fetus' successor? who's that? the fetus' children or its next brother/sister? or is she going to pay herself the blood money seeing as she is the successor?
bad enough having a miscarriage and having to live with it for the rest of your life, but paying a hefty fine for something that she had no control over?
while it is good that there are rules to protect an unborn child, this just strikes me a tad ridiculous. like the baby nayana case. i understand rules are rules. but common sense in aplying them is what makes things fair, not arbitrarily stupid.
I don't like the fact that the comments made attacking Islam have not been deleted by the amins...I think they are hate filled enough to get deleted....
Regarding this case...if it was proven that the Mother was being reckless and therefore caused the death of the baby, then the judgment is justified IMO...
Anonymous @ 04 May, 2009 13:25: I have deleted your comment because it's pretty borderline; leaving your first comment because it does raise a valid question.
I'm sorry Proud Emirati, don't mean to be controversial but Sharia/the interpretation of Islam applied in Saudi Arabia IS VERY STUPID and I have ZERO RESPECT for it.
I'm sure she's already blaming herself enough. I think Islamic scholars would have various opinions on this situation. Not so black and white. We do not know all the details. An article does not shed every ounce of light.
A woman who just lost her baby hardly needs to be punished. How absurd. Compare that to a young Emirati who drives at perilous speeds, wipes out five/six members of a family, and walks away scot free. This kind of thing hurts the UAE's image terribly.
Wow PE, I didn't realize that the foundations of Islam were so shaky that one anonymous comment on a seldom read blog were a threat to it. Moreover, I'm not sure have you know that any UAE laws were broken. Since the server that hosts this blog is not in the UAE, if the commenter is not in the UAE, how is any law being broken?
Anonymous said... Blessing in Tragedy said 'Being pregnant is a stupid thing IMHO.' I wonder how you know that? Come now, don't hide and tell us more ;)
Pregnancy = birth.
Birth = More population, more illness, more suffering...
My eldest 1/2 sister is 37, married a decade and some, no kids. smartest person I know.
Some people don't understand the difference between Saudi laws and Islamic laws (quite a big difference). Also, some people think the UAE is the US. They are all confused. So, the guy who made the original 'offending' comment is as big an idiot as those who were offended by it.
I don't know the case, but as someone pointed out, if the mother was indeed reckless in her driving, I think the verdict is justified. Obviously the issue of when to call the fetus a human being is debatable. However, if the country uses Shari'a as a basis for its laws, then the debate is over and it simply becomes a matter of implementation.
Birth = More population, more illness, more suffering...
My eldest 1/2 sister is 37, married a decade and some, no kids. smartest person I know.
That is THE most unreliable response I've read from you.
And with all the respect to your sister being married for a decade without any kids does not make her the smartest person IMHO. Yes she may have an higher IQ level, with a challenging, high paying job etc.
So unless you have a better explanation about pregnancy other than birth, population, illness & suffering, feel free to share your thoughts because there is a lot more to having a child of your own than what you wrote. Of course, you'd have to be a parent to understand that.
The woman was punished for being negligent not for killing her baby. The prosecutor believed she was following another vehicle too closely and the accident was caused by this negligence. If the woman accidentally fell down stairs as one comment asked, she would not have been convicted.
The Court did show some leniency by probating the sentence for three years assumedly to give her time to pay the fines and blood money. The case was odd and at first glance seemed unjust but after more thought I felt it seemed the best approach to balancing the law with the woman's loss. I hope she and her husband recover from this unfortunate event. They will eventually see their child in heaven.
NOTE: By making a post/comment on this blog you agree that you are solely responsible for its content and that you are up to date on the laws of the country you are posting from and that your post/comment abides by them.
* whose.
ReplyDeletethis is the peak of civilization !
ReplyDeleteeven unborn kids have their rights in islam.
I saw this today too and rather than fixate on the tragedy decided to celebrate the Saudi woman closing her business rather than conform to the law insisting she take on a man as a director-general http://www.gulfnews.com/business/General/10310154.html
ReplyDeleteI pray that the Lebanese woman who lost her baby in the accident will heal in time. A very sad story.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteso who is the successor of the foetus?
ReplyDeleteI guess Dubai is becoming more Islamic and implementing Sharia law to its full stupid extend. When is the ban on women driving going to come into force?
Insulting Islam is a criminal act by law and could lead to jail Anonymous 11:06 and under the Prohibited Content Categories of the UAE's internet Access Management Policy. Where is the hypocrite samuraisam?
ReplyDeleteproud emirati: It would be great if you had actually ever read the terms and conditions to posting on this blog (they're written right above the box where you post your comment)
ReplyDelete"By posting a comment on this blog you agree that you are solely responsible for its content and that you are up to date on the laws of the country you are posting from and that your post abides by them."I will only delete comments that are obscenely racist or obscenely hate filled.
I don't think the TRA will care about that.
ReplyDeleteSo go call the TRA then.
ReplyDeleteme calling TRA
ReplyDeleteI read this article in GN thrice trying to understand.. so a expectant mother loses her baby in an accident.. and is asked to pay herself Diyah money?
ReplyDeletelots of debate on this - but one question, Does anyone think this is right and correct?
ReplyDeletePE?
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteto its full stupid extend.
ReplyDeleteDont like it? Leave! Terminal 3 is HUGE, and is just asking for you!
My OPINION... the unborn have right as well. Thankfully, I can live in a place where the laws reflect my opinions, as opposed to a place that has opposite opinions fighting about the same old things for 20+ years.
unbelievable - there ARE actually people on here who think this is right! I don't know whether to laugh or cry!!!!
ReplyDeletePoor women. It must be very sad. It was an accident, I hope no one passes through the same experience.
ReplyDeleteABIT
ReplyDeleteIt seems you never travelled or seen other countries.Try it you might educate your self.
Axonsaz, in the US, legally, this has more than one answer. Under the law, the fetus is not regarded as having its own "life" until it is separate from its mother. Therefore, a fetus can never be a "human being" because it becomes one when it is born. However, in some jurisdictions, it is regarded as a separate being if the mother is attacked. So, if the mother was killed, the killer is sometimes charged with double homicide. A true court case & verdict in the state of New York. Also, please note that you are stepping into a legal and moral quagmire.
ReplyDeletePS: the next time, please, could you could come up with a 'mature' opening statement, because you sort of killed debate right at the beginning.
A prayer & thought to the mom. Cannot comprehend her pain.
ReplyDeleteRosh, since when do we take the US as a benchmark? In Islam an inborn baby who is older than 4 months is considered a human being with a soul, therefore its death is considered a murder.
ReplyDeletePE: I didn't say or even imply, the UAE (or anyone) should benchmark its laws to that in the US. Please, read my comment again. I did say, in some cases (even in the west where abortion is legal) 'murder' of an unborn is considered homicide.
ReplyDeleteThat said, what if the UAE mom accidentally slipped and fell down the stairs? Would you call her a murderer? Isn't murder (more so) if she 'premeditated' with an 'intent' harm or kill? How could an accident be 'murder' especially in this instance - unless you know something more of the case?
PE: the entire comment at 17:36 was to Axonsaz, including the "PS" (Post Script) portion.
ReplyDeleteYes, I am willing to admit I have seen a lot of pregnant woman doing a lot of stupid things, but then I have seen a lot of mothers doing stupider things.
ReplyDeleteThe mother who lets her little kid ride in the front seat with no childseat/belt buckle, the mother who thinks its cute to let her kid hang halfway out of an open window, the mother who smokes in front of the pram, even dropping ashes on the pram... I can infact go on.
There is a so called "heavily pregnant" school teacher in my kids school, who at 13.55 everyday, thinks she is Fernando Alonso.
Whereas it is tragic that this lady has lost the baby,and it is indeed a very high price to pay.
But what if and when: HAD she driven into some pregnant woman and caused her to lose her baby.
Would then the verdict be okay?
What if the driver had in fact been male.
Would then the verdict to pay blood money be okay?
Just because nature has biologically created a woman to reproduce, it does not by default mean that she can be a "mother".
Whether she was reckless and stupid, or it was purely an accident only she knows the answer to that.
For most of us to even conjure such an image is heartbreaking, but across the world everyday, women are having abortions.
Are they not mothers too?
As far as this case goes, perhaps it could be a wakeup call to all these women who think being pregnant is about going to Mothercare and buying cutesy outfits.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteABIT
It seems you never travelled or seen other countries.Try it you might educate your self.
Actually I've lived in 12, some for long periods of time. Seen alot, maybe not everything, but enough.
Aside from the lived in countries, Ive visited 20 or so others.
So your point was...? to look stupid? You accomplished that.
Yes, I am willing to admit I have seen a lot of pregnant woman doing a lot of stupid things
ReplyDeleteBeing pregnant is a stupid thing IMHO.
it still isn't clear who the blood money is going to go to. the fetus' successor? who's that? the fetus' children or its next brother/sister? or is she going to pay herself the blood money seeing as she is the successor?
ReplyDeletebad enough having a miscarriage and having to live with it for the rest of your life, but paying a hefty fine for something that she had no control over?
while it is good that there are rules to protect an unborn child, this just strikes me a tad ridiculous. like the baby nayana case. i understand rules are rules. but common sense in aplying them is what makes things fair, not arbitrarily stupid.
atleast its not a dull day at courts.
I don't like the fact that the comments made attacking Islam have not been deleted by the amins...I think they are hate filled enough to get deleted....
ReplyDeleteRegarding this case...if it was proven that the Mother was being reckless and therefore caused the death of the baby, then the judgment is justified IMO...
I meant 'admins'
ReplyDeleteAnonymous @ 04 May, 2009 13:25: I have deleted your comment because it's pretty borderline; leaving your first comment because it does raise a valid question.
ReplyDeleteAbit
ReplyDeleteIMHO
HAHAHAHHA! Theres nothing H in your O! LOL
hoho! on a roll there, sista! :)
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry Proud Emirati, don't mean to be controversial but Sharia/the interpretation of Islam applied in Saudi Arabia IS VERY STUPID and I have ZERO RESPECT for it.
ReplyDeleteI don't care if u do Modern, just don't share ur dirt with us.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure she's already blaming herself enough.
ReplyDeleteI think Islamic scholars would have various opinions on this situation. Not so black and white. We do not know all the details. An article does not shed every ounce of light.
Well I like many others believe in freedom of speech so I will share whatever I want. If you don't like it...tough I'm afraid.
ReplyDeleteA woman who just lost her baby hardly needs to be punished. How absurd. Compare that to a young Emirati who drives at perilous speeds, wipes out five/six members of a family, and walks away scot free. This kind of thing hurts the UAE's image terribly.
ReplyDeleteBlessing in Tragedy said 'Being pregnant is a stupid thing IMHO.' I wonder how you know that? Come now, don't hide and tell us more ;)
ReplyDeleteWow PE, I didn't realize that the foundations of Islam were so shaky that one anonymous comment on a seldom read blog were a threat to it. Moreover, I'm not sure have you know that any UAE laws were broken. Since the server that hosts this blog is not in the UAE, if the commenter is not in the UAE, how is any law being broken?
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
ReplyDeleteBlessing in Tragedy said 'Being pregnant is a stupid thing IMHO.' I wonder how you know that? Come now, don't hide and tell us more ;)
Pregnancy = birth.
Birth = More population, more illness, more suffering...
My eldest 1/2 sister is 37, married a decade and some, no kids. smartest person I know.
anon @ 05 May, 2009 17:11
ReplyDeleteSome people don't understand the difference between Saudi laws and Islamic laws (quite a big difference). Also, some people think the UAE is the US. They are all confused. So, the guy who made the original 'offending' comment is as big an idiot as those who were offended by it.
I don't know the case, but as someone pointed out, if the mother was indeed reckless in her driving, I think the verdict is justified. Obviously the issue of when to call the fetus a human being is debatable. However, if the country uses Shari'a as a basis for its laws, then the debate is over and it simply becomes a matter of implementation.
Anonymous wrote at 18:11
ReplyDeletePregnancy = birth.
Birth = More population, more illness, more suffering...
My eldest 1/2 sister is 37, married a decade and some, no kids. smartest person I know.
That is THE most unreliable response I've read from you.
And with all the respect to your sister being married for a decade without any kids does not make her the smartest person IMHO. Yes she may have an higher IQ level, with a challenging, high paying job etc.
So unless you have a better explanation about pregnancy other than birth, population, illness & suffering, feel free to share your thoughts because there is a lot more to having a child of your own than what you wrote. Of course, you'd have to be a parent to understand that.
The woman was punished for being negligent not for killing her baby. The prosecutor believed she was following another vehicle too closely and the accident was caused by this negligence. If the woman accidentally fell down stairs as one comment asked, she would not have been convicted.
ReplyDeleteThe Court did show some leniency by probating the sentence for three years assumedly to give her time to pay the fines and blood money. The case was odd and at first glance seemed unjust but after more thought I felt it seemed the best approach to balancing the law with the woman's loss. I hope she and her husband recover from this unfortunate event. They will eventually see their child in heaven.