As you know, the Israelis have have boarded an international aid ship heading for Gaza while it was in international waters and murdered 19 of its members. The ship was carrying the Turkish flag and Turkey as well as all Muslim and Arab nations are furious, the world is furious too at this act of state-sponsored barbaric piracy by the Middle East's "only democracy".
Democracy my ass...
Coming soon.. more stuff on this.. but until then I leave you with this excellent cartoon by my friend Carlos Latuff.
More info:
Carlos Latuff on Twitter
Carlos Latuff on Deviant Art
Ferroviasdobrazil.com
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/10203726.stm
http://gulfnews.com/news/region/palestinian-territories/palestinians-arabs-demand-probe-of-israeli-raid-on-gaza-aid-flotilla-1.635135
PS: I actually met the Gulf News reporter on board the ship, and my thoughts go out to his family at this time.
Posts
42 comments:
So is this call for an impartial investigation in the linked story a real request? I ask since everyone seems to have convicted Israel already. In general you only call for an investigation if you aren't sure what happened.
It seems like many want a verdict first, then sentence and execution, and then the investigation. That doesn't seem to be the proper order.
San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflict at Sea - "If you have a declared blockade, publicly declared, legally declared, publicized as international law requires, and someone is trying to break that blockade and though you have warned them . . . you are entitled to intercept even on the high seas, even in international waters."
Whoever planned this relief effort knew this sort of end result was inevitable. And there's no doubt in my mind this trend will continue. It will continue until both parties find the courage to sit down, talk, and sort out their differences.
The other option is an all out war where the outcome is appalling to contemplate.
Take your pick!
Irrespective of where the investigation is at this point in time, an attack on anyone in international waters is a crime. I would urge everyone to listen to the accounts of released captives on BBC and CNN. I doubt people from Sweden and the US with little or no links to institutionalized violence have an agenda. Read the comments of a Swedish author who was on one of the ships. I do believe it is about time someone addressed and put a stop to hostilities stemming from a nation's theological paranoia. I might as well start killing people in the Atlantic Ocean because the Flying Spaghetti Monster told me that area is mine.
It seems like many want a verdict first, then sentence and execution, and then the investigation. That doesn't seem to be the proper order.
When a plane is hijacked or when Somali pirates attack a ship, do you refrain from blaming the pirates or the hijackers until an investigation is made?
This was piracy, plain and simple.
You dont board a ship with commandos and kill civilians when challenged.
I would love to see you show similar underlying support for the Somali pirates the next time they board a ship saying they have the right to check if said ship has any weapons
Anon - I think this only applies when you have officially declared war - and they haven't. And I seem to remember that the blockade has been condemned by the UN on a number of occasions so its not a legally declared blockade either.
The captain of a ship is entitled to use all reasonable means to stop unauthorised boarders - so for the Isreaelis to say they were attacked is a bit like a buglar complaining someone set the dog on him while he was burgling their house. If they hadn't been storming the ship they would not have been attacked.
There's wrong on both sides of this conflict and both sets of leaders need to grow up and sit down together and work things out. But of course there are too many vested interests in keeping the conflict going.
This was a deliberate provocation and it came to a head. I'm sorry about any casualties -which could have been avoided- but the flotilla knew exactly this stand off was going to end this way. It perpetuates the Palesntinan martyr myth. Great move towards peace negotiations, I have to say...
@Mohammed,
The problem with your analogy with hijackers and pirates is that those groups are not a state actor enforcing a (possibly illegal, I acknowledge) blockade.
Regardless, I can understand that many feel the way you do. But that does make these calls for an "investigation" seem a little empty. I'm perfectly willing to have a hanging after a fair trial, I just don't want a lynching.
susan: not true.
it doesn't matter if the UN condemns it.
read this
Anyway, it's the same old shit as always. A bunch of grievers complaining. Israel offers to let the aid through and they refuse because they couldn't pass up the opportunity for some attention.
Israel is bad today.
Palestine is bad tomorrow.
Same shit 365 days of the year.
State actors have whatever little legitimacy they have within their borders.
They had the right to not allow the flotilla to dock at an Israeli port.
They dont have the right to land on a ship without being invited in international waters. So they are no different from Somali pirates in this case....
And yes, according to many people with distorted logic, trying to deliver aid to starving people is "deliberate provocation"...
“The initial reaction to the flotilla massacre, deliberate massacre, an international crime, was pitiful. What do you mean you regret something that should be so strongly condemned, and if any other nation in the world had done it, we would have been up in arms? What is this ironclad relationship where a country that deliberately kills people and boycotts every aid and abet… the boycott?” - Helen Thomas
Spot on!!
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/helen-thomas-rails-at-robert-gibbs-over-white-house-stance-on-israeli-flotilla-attack/
Mohammed,
Actually, you have it exactly backwards: The Israelis were willing to let the the ships dock at an Israeli port and then let an international agency take the humanitarian supplies overland to Gaza.
I have no special knowledge of international or maritime law (and I'm amazed that so many of you all do - who would have thought that this blog would have some many scholars in this particular area reading it?), but the BBC says: 'A ship trying to breach a blockade can be boarded and force may be used to stop it as long as it is "necessary and proportionate".' Maybe that is wrong or doesn't apply in this case. I say let's have the investigation and find out.
Also, just out of curiosity, since you seem to think in these sorts of self-evident case an investigation is unneeded: Did you also support the Bush administration's detaining of "terrorists" at Guantanamo without hearing or investigation? Not the torture/extreme interrogation methods, but the detaining?
Anon - the UN condemned the blockade BECAUSE it was ilegal not the other way round.
And regardless of whether the Iraeli Ministry of Forgeign Affairs says the blockade is legal - killing 10 or more people is not a proportionate response no matter what excuses they proclaim.
Of course this was a deliberate provocation - bait a bully for long enough and he'll show his true colours
oh, apologists, even here.
Can't believe that the first comment and many more comments simply defend Israel....
Sorry, doesn't matter how good your PR machine is.. it will be very hard to make Israel appear as the "poor and defenseless" side.
Dictionary definition:
apol·o·gist
Pronunciation: \ə-ˈpä-lə-jist\
Function: noun
Date: 1640
: one who speaks or writes in defense of someone or something
So yeah, on both sides PE.
Buj,
Just curious, since the first comment is mine, and therefore the only one singled out: Where do I defend Israel or try to make them appear weak and defenseless? My position is exactly the same as the UN, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and the protesters cited in your Gulf News article. Are all those unbelievable too? Or are they defending Israel?
buj: i don't get whats so hard about defending israel. they gave the flotilla morons an opportunity to send in aid via an international aid agency but they refused.
the flotilla people aren't trying to solve anything, as usual its just a bunch of idiots running around wearing kaffaya and talking about world peace before they start hitting people with metal poles.
israel is no better. they're both idiots.
to be fair, israel had publicly declared the blockade and the flotilla people openly said they were going to try and go through it. israel gave fair warning and the flotilla people didn't listen.
morons.
Buj:
This isn't about PR and how powerful it is. This is about an entity that's here to stay. The only way it could be wiped off the map is by nuking the shit out of it. But remember there are side-effects from nuking someone off the map.
I'd rather compromise for the sake of my children instead of getting my butt blown to smithereens.
I'm sorry for the out of the loop language but it is what it is, isn't it?
Please don't think for a minute that I don't empathize with this situation but there's more to it than meets the eye. I'll leave that to your wisdom to figure it out!
regardless of who thinks who is a "moron" or "dumb" or "idiots"..
What israel did was illegal.
buj: no it wasnt.
the flotilla was given plenty of warning and they didnt comply.
palestine and israel are at war, this isnt series 6 of desperate housewives. when an advanced mechanized military force tells you to go away you ideally listen.
"War isn't about who's right. It's about who's left."
even if israel is 193% in the wrong, the palestinians always manage to leave reason for people to doubt their story.
wow.. juicey debate.. and i havent even dipped a toe in.. lets leave it that way.. for relevant video clips and articles you are all welcome to visit my blog..
www.emspeace.blogspot.com
as a proud israeli - these events deeply sadden me.. i believe we could have done a better job at minimising casualties had we anticipated how ruthless and vicious the flotilla mob was.. but we didnt expect a lynch squad to be travelling under the title of humanitarian activists and so we were not cautious enough..
water guns would have been better.. there are crowd dispersing cannons that are designed for these scenarious.. but then people would have slipped and hit their heads and drowned and we would be considered murderers still..
as explained above - it was to be a legally conducted inspection of a boat advancing towards a declared sea blockade to ensure that it wasnt carrying illicit goods.. in the past some ships were let through - others intercepted - but every single day trucks go through with tons of aid..
check out these figures (i admit i havent verified but it sounds right) http://si-info.org/index.php?id=575
turkey is playing with fire to pis off europe and as an admission fee back into the arab world - it has busted open an israel bbq..
tragic and cynical loss of life..
i hope it never recurs.. and whatsmore i wish for the gazans to be free of hamas and their tyranny in the near future.. so that we can finally negotiate a final settlement and end this stupid war..
peace shalom salam..
@ lirun: i believe we could have done a better job at minimising casualties had we anticipated how ruthless and vicious the flotilla mob was.
hahaha... you made me laugh out loud.
i feel the same way about babies... their screams are so shrill. like EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.
you have to suffocate them to be able to think rationally.
but really. your comment was awesome. i know now im going to have a great weekend.
First of all, Israel has no legal international claim to the (illegally occupied) Gaza coast.
“The best-trained special forces in the world just wanted to "talk" and were attacked by a bunch of knife-wielding terrorists in a Turkish boat carrying tons of aid - medicine, building materials, school equipment, food, water purifiers, toys - for the 1.5 million Gazans who have been slowly dying under an Israeli blockade for the past three years, ever since they “democratically” elected a government by Hamas.
Gaza - because of the illegal Israeli blockade the flotilla was trying to break - is mired in absolute poverty, unemployment, lack of medicine and medical equipment, and is being literally starved to death; no less than 10% of Gazans, mostly children, are physically stunted from malnutrition. The Israeli commandos were defending the illegal Israeli blockade in Gaza.”
Bottom line is, the Israeli blockade on Gaza is illegal – the Israeli occupation of Gaza is illegal. If this illegal activity wasn’t there in the first place, none of this would have happened.
Lirun, spare me your “I’ll put down the hose if you put down the lighter and spray can” talk – no one on that boat was ruthless or vicious. It doesn’t matter if “it was to be a legally conducted inspection of a boat advancing towards a declared sea blockade to ensure that it wasnt carrying illicit goods”,, your declared “sea blockade” is illegal in itself.
Except that the boats had already been inspected and their contents verified as humanitarian aid before leaving Turkey.
Turkey was an ally to Israel as recently as three days ago. Not now.
palestine and israel are at war, this isnt series 6 of desperate housewives. when an advanced mechanized military force tells you to go away you ideally listen.
"War isn't about who's right. It's about who's left."
Point taken. So when in the future your dear Israelis are massacred like flies, people like you shouldnt come to blogs moaning about Israelis being killed....because as you said, its war.....
Only sad thing is we dont know how much in the future it will be....
"Point taken. So when in the future your dear Israelis are massacred like flies, people like you shouldnt come to blogs moaning about Israelis being killed....because as you said, its war.....
Only sad thing is we dont know how much in the future it will be...."
that would help if I was actually israeli. i dont care for either side. the only thing that concerns me is how much news coverage this shit still gets after almost 100 years. its ridiculous.
we do know how long this will go on... forever. both sides have too many idiots to drop the conflict.
Interestingly in most forums Ive been to (non Arabic or Muslim majority) the majority were attacking Israel and here in a supposedly an Arabic Islamic sympathetic blog considering its name at least, the comments supporting Israel are mind blowing. Keeps you wonder about the dirt we've been allowing to this country.
Israel needs to be punished by a way or another !
It is insulting the whole world !
Something has to be done - and it has to be done by the whole world !
"Why is Gaza under siege in the first place? Under international law, the Israelis are responsible as the occupying force for the proper administration of the territory; and half the point of Israel is not to be above the law. Yet they are creating a traumatised territory of 1.5m neighbours, many of whose children seem to want to grow up to be suicide bombers. They are also pouring fertiliser on al-Qaida's ground."
Taken from this very interesting article written by Jeremy Greenstock, former UK to the United Nations and Iraq, he also served in the British embassy in Dubai for some time- I highly recommend everyone reads it;
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jun/02/gaza-israel-flotilla-hamas
i understand that no one really cars to discuss.. you just want to vent.. thats cool.. im not needed..
have a good weekend..
shalom
Brn.. I'm all for a full investigation.. but the main fact is clear... Israel had no business to board a non-Israeli boat in international waters.
It's black and white wrong.. sorry mate.
bring on the investigation I say.
Proud Emirati.. you say the truth.
The siege on Gaza is inhumane form of collective punishment (that is, assuming punishment if called for at all). I can't for the life of me understand how any moral being could support the siege or its enforcement. It's obvious that Israel was determined to stop the Flotilla no matter the consequences, even if it meant murdering some of the organizers.
Make no mistake about it, soldiers are not street hustlers who get 'provoked', they embark on a mission with clear ROE (Rules of Engagement). It must have been obvious to the Israeli navy that, after the activists resisted attempt to subdue them TWICE, that boarding the ship was going to instigate resistance. Opining that the organizers knew that this was going to be the outcome and planned for it is akin, and as revolting, as blaming the victim of a crime for it, rather than blaming it on the criminal.
Here's am opinion by an Aussie law professor:
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/stories/s2915343.htm
In response to the reference to San Remo Manual (cited by anonymous comment #2):
"What Israel conveniently omits to mention is that the San Remo Manual also contains rules governing the lawfulness of the blockade itself, and there can be no authority under international law to enforce a blockade which is unlawful."
And:
"First, absent any intention by the flotilla to attack Israel, or any suspicion of piracy, it was unlawful for Israel to forcibly board foreign merchant vessels in international waters.
Secondly, such action amounted to an unlawful interference in the enforcement jurisdiction of the "flag-States" (countries of registration) of those vessels, such as Turkey.
Thirdly, it violated the fundamental principle of freedom of navigation on the high seas, codified in the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea of 1982.
Fourthly, under international human rights law, the apprehension and detention of those on board the vessels likely amounts to arbitrary, unlawful detention, contrary to article 9 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, since there is lawful basis for detention.
Fifthly, if Israeli forces killed people, they may not only have infringed the human right to life, but they may also have committed serious international crimes. Under article 3 of the Rome Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful Acts against the Safety of Maritime Navigation of 1988, it is an international crime for any person to seize or exercise control over a ship by force, and also a crime to injure or kill any person in the process. "
dubai jazz.. read your comment.. please.. again..
"Nine Turkish activists killed in an Israeli raid on a Gaza-bound aid ship were shot a total of 30 times and five died of gunshot wounds to the head, Britain's Guardian newspaper reported on Friday.
Autopsy results showed the men were hit mostly with 9mm bullets, many fired at close range, the Guardian said
A 19-year-old, named as Fulkan Dogan, who also has U.S. citizenship, was shot five times from less than 45 cm (18 inches) away, in the face, the back of the head, twice in the leg and once in the back, it said."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100604/wl_nm/us_israel_flotilla_autopsies
This reads, cold blooded murder.
@ rosh: at least we can say israel is generous with bullets.
also, i think statistically speaking, you are less likely to miss your target at close range.
All we already know the real intentions of Israel, a rogue state above law but what I can proudly see that the West is making a big effort against this big injustice...Still Iam waiting the reactions of the arabs, the only that I can say is... shame on you ya arabs, while Israelis are killing pacifist defending YOUR brothers you are wasting your time dealing about if a woman can drive, or the constrution of the next higher tower of the world, or if it is illegal a kiss in the street....Nations that are not condemninng Israel needs you SO ...you have the power to make sanctions to push them, imagine the US without the arabs wealth in their banks .... WHAT ARE YOU DOING FOR YOUR BROTHERS YA ARABS??? now the west is a better brother for the Palestinians than You... shame shame shame on you
Dear 19.06.
and oh yes. do fight with the Arabs next.
Never give up finding a cause to rail even when the whole world supports you..
Apparently you have not read the Gulf News reporter's blow by blow account in his paper of what happened with him during the ordeal. published over three days.
apart from all media and Twitter support in the Gulf from expats and the Ya Arabs
it says more than lip service diplomatic statements "expressing shock"
honestly...
الله يلعنهم و ايغربلهم دنيا و اخره
AND WHEN THE WORLD IS BUSY PREPARDING FOR THE WORLD CUP,,,, YET AGAIN THOSE COWARD FILTHY ZIONISTS STRETCH THEIR MUSCLES.
dear 08:05
words, words and more words
but the Palestinians need now ACTIONS
I was not talking about the simple people that of course condemn the israelis criminal actions...
I was talking about the arab ligue and your royal rulers, kings and sheijs
very reach and very powerful people that can make a big and powerful lobby like the jews with their AIPAC and more, but the arabs rulers seem to be busy in their high constructions and making profits while the jews and their powerful lobby can push presidents...wake up, take the streets and ask for your rulers to take REAL actions, not mere words
the only that they give is money, but it is easy to give money when you are rich, what the Palestinias need is ACTION NOW!!! not only a check to build a hospital, they need real support from their ruling brothers, they are arabs and muslims but you still are paying atentions to divisions like if still you were bedoins, wake up, the world have change and need actions, real actions not only words
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