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18 July, 2008
40 cross-dressing tourists arrested
Gulf News has the story.
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104 comments:
can't understand the issue with "kiss my sticker" case.
I have seen a guy in a hospital who was wearing a shirt that said, Bush, and a picture of "the real bush" with a woman who has her pants slightly pulled down and a bush peaking out.
That was inappropriate, but I too sick to say anything or even think of reporting him.
FINALLY some action by the Dubai Police. These issues are not new to the local community, in fact they have been discussed multiple times on various radio shows. And as much as I would like it to be real and serious, I think all these news items are a way to calm down the local community after the Beach Sex incident...hopefully I'm wrong and some serious action is taken this time around.
Its just bloody stupid. Cracking down on tourists like this will have only one result - empty hotels.
Sure the local poplulation has every right to ask people to behave however they want them to. But equally the tourists have every right to take their money and spend it somewhere else.
^^ Who cares about cross-dressers not cominng to Dubai?
I remember when there was a time 2-3 years ago when I used to say that kissing in public is an offense but no one believed me. They accused me of being an extremist and always came with their "live and let live" crap.
Now we know :D
ah....of course they were all tourists. I've seen men wearing full makeup and done-up hair in the UAE. Many of them have also had on dishdasha.
Proud Emirati:
You and your likes are batting zero with your holier than thou comments.
You also seem to forget that Dubai is a regional hub, and with that endorsement comes a price. One of those is the freedom to do as one chooses but with limitations - of course that's debatable for now. You may choose to ignore this for the sake of self-assurance but it's a fact.
Now, you have a problem with tourists that are cross-dressers, drag queens, fairies, etc - stop them at the Airport while they're in the Passport Control Q and ship them back to where they came from. If you allow them into the country (most likely to hook up with your brethren) and then accuse them of irregularities in the name of your religion then I say you're wrong.
You have a problem with naked tanners on your beaches, I say set up tanning booths right there on your beaches - after all there's no shortage of sunshine here. Charge them for using the solar-powered tanning booths and let them burn themselves down to a crisp whether semi-clad or in their birthday suits. This way, those tanners don't offend you, your culture or your religion and we all live happily ever after!
I remember that time everyone got pissy because a bunch of guys dressed like freej characters when the UAE won some stupid football game. I remember when it made the papers.
If you go to Mall of the Emirates and you can watch the movie "Juno" (about a teen getting pregnant with PRE MARITAL SEXUAL RELATIONS) and then you can buy American Starbucks, eat American Mc Donalds and buy western clothes and listen to and purchase western music about pimps and ho's and you use the American Internet and the American Google website, and drive big fking american cars and you can't put up with seeing two people kiss each other on the cheek then you obviously aren't very aware of the engine you're supporting.
Who cares? We decide what is accepted and what is not. If we say that cheese should be banned then be it :P
and btw, I wasn't pissed off when some guys were wearing Freejs clothes.....
We decide
Wait wait wait wait wait a second...
If you decide, then how come all this evil foreigner villainy is suddenly a problem now? You're practically admitting that for the past 3 years you've had a problem with public shows of affection your and your opinion doesn't count for anything.
You also think alcohol should be completely banned... Alcohol remains.
This whole crackdown on 'public shows of affection' and people dressing up has only been the fallout of the straw that broke the camel's (that being the case of some drunken people trying to make babies on public on a beach) give it until after ramadan and things will be back to normal.
Sorry, but your opinion obviously does not and never did count for anything.
You don't decide anything.
"Cracking down on tourists like this will have only one result - empty hotels"
i dnt think ppl flock all over the world with the sole intention of engaging in indecent exposure,and by that i mean groping and sexual gestures tht are nowhere near mild!
theres a diff between holding ur lady by the waist and having outright sex.
40? r u freaking serious?
where they in a caravan trekking towards UPTOWN MIRDIFF or wat?
and btw how long does it take for me to get listed i've applied like ages ago!
--- Sugar- Free Sweetie..
You right on sister ;)
It is about time... Just yesterday while waiting for the Q for cinestar in MOE a guy was kissing his WIFE/GF/PARTNER on her Neck shoulder nonstop, until they reached ticket guy!!!
What do you expect me to do? ;)
Of course I did.
I'm never quite when it comes to such incident let alone the incident in the cinema when the movie ended (What happens in Vegas) The lights were on suddenly I see a teenager/Girl jumping from here seat to her BF's (yes bF too young to be married)lap KISSING HIM!
Hello?! hello?! helllllllo!!
--- ROse in Dubai it is not stupid? why is it stupid? You don't have to agree with it, it doesn't have to make sense to you!! It is working and we are satisfied!
I'm sorry to burst your bubble but
Dubai's tourism doesn't need little transvestites or trashy people to succeed!
If we are speaking in terms of TOURISTS!
People who come here and shop till they drop, and sit in our 5 stars hotels are GCC nationals ;)
They've always been our number one loyal visitors since 10+ plus!
Samuraisam,now that is a totally different argument !
DXBIANGIRL, good girl :P
Why does it always seem as if am the only one who protest what they are doing. No one seem to have the courage to actually tell them to stop !
"People who come here and shop till they drop, and sit in our 5 stars hotels are GCC nationals ;)"
Oh! I do not disagree - they (mostly KSAians) beside shopping, also love the freedom and opportunities for some hanky panky play at the *5* star hotels. DXB and Bahrain, playgrounds of the GCC (and by play, I don't mean football). I find it hard to believe that majority of GCC tourist money spend in DXB is given GCC mall-shopping escapades?
As for the kissing, overtly public affection etc all - I am all with you DXBian girl. I think you are very correct to have walked up and let that couple know, to behave whilst in your city - so yes, kuddos to you for doing so.
Hey Rosh
you are damn so right about these two playgrounds in GCC! 5* hotels...hmmmm ask the reception managers of these hotels and they tell you exactly what & how it all happens! I too agree with strict laws when it comes to inappropriate clothing and indecent behavior. So whilst in UAE one should know of the phrase "cover the face and fire the base".....
dxbiangirl:
"People who come here and shop till they drop, and sit in our 5 stars hotels are GCC nationals ;)"
Yeah. All 5 of them.
"I'm never quite when it comes to such incident let alone the incident in the cinema when the movie ended (What happens in Vegas) The lights were on suddenly I see a teenager/Girl jumping from here seat to her BF's (yes bF too young to be married)lap KISSING HIM!
Hello?! hello?! helllllllo!!"
...So you went and saw the movie "What happens in vegas" about two people getting plastered (that means drinking alcohol), gambling and unintentionally getting married... yet you have a problem with two people kissing in a darkened room. Idiot.
I think we need a clear guidelines from the authority. 'coz we r confused with which is right and not.
Sam Habiby, why are you so angry? You choose to live here right? but you don't choose to become Muslim or to wear a Kandoora, why? because you take what you like from here and leave what you don't. Which is excellent.
We buy American products, we watch their movies, but we choose not to follow some of their ways of life and choose to hold on to what we think is important in our country.
What is wrong with that?
Why do some of you have the idea that tourist only visit other peoples country and expect to find a copy paste lifestyle of thier home country?
Relax Sam, we all want everybody to be happy here, what we locals re asking for is not a big deal. So what if kissing in public is forbidin would that break relationships? marriages? would it make men impotant? So what if G-string and topless women are not allowed on our beaches, would that ruin her vacation?
Come on. These are small things.
Well said Anonymous @ 19 July, 2008 12:14 !
You choose to live here right? but you don't choose to become Muslim or to wear a Kandoora, why? because you take what you like from here and leave what you don't. Which is excellent.
I’m all for this one, just as long as your Muslim Brothers & Sisters all over Europe & US follow our lead and convert to Christianity and give up their kandoora/hijab.
Great idea.
keen to hear someone's response to the last comment..
Anonymous @ 19 July, 2008 12:14,well said.
This cross dressing thing is going on for quite some time.But suddenly it's become such an issue probably after the " beach incident".
I have seen so many people from the Phillipines cross dressing.(I do not have anything against them.)There is a woman I know who dresses and looks exactly like a man, and I just cant help laughing imagining her dressed like a lady.
Anyways,good work Dubai Police.You should have begun this a long time ago.
anon, 19 July, 2008 13:30
Why don't you practice using the jelly located under your skull by reading my commment which you have responded to.
Nobody said convert or get rid of your traditions.
All I was saying was that we are not imposing big things on you.
Since when is making out and showing your crack lines is a part of your tradition?
When our Muslim brothers and sisters wear their Hijab, they don't show obscenity (whatever the spelling for that word).
Since when getting drunk and misbehaving is part of your culture?
We are not asking that you should not wear your Cross or stop believing in your God, we are asking you to stop certains behaviours what many people I know of different religion, would frown on.
We did not ask to shut down the nightclubs, the bars,stop you wearing your swimming clothes. We simply are asking to stop the disinhibited behaviour that is becoming more and more common every where.
So againg anon 19 July, 2008 13:30
Use that jelly will you or it will turn into water and drip through your nose.
And Lirun, if you found the comment anon 19 July, 2008 13:30
made interesting, then you should start using your jelly that hopefully is present under your thick skull.
I hope this is not just a quick 'make the conservative residents happy' move to cover up for the whole sex on the beach scandal...
I hope they keep to this and keep some of the unnecessary trash off the street...
Slightly off track.
Yesterday night, a bunch of people that were born in the UAE (but not all locals) invited me out for a night on the town. They took me to Deira and some non so 5 star hotels for a different experience of Dubai. I experienced morocan dance bars, indian dance bars and hookers swarming all over the place (including on the street)...not to mention the famous message parlors...
After this nice night, the crack down on cross dressers seems a bit out of place. Not that I am particulary in favour of cross dressers...
And I do confirm, GCC guests stay also in those hotels and do tip the dancers very well !!!
to the last anon who had a nice night out.
Yes, these things happen here, we don't like to think it does, but it does, locals, GCC residents are customers...but that is another isssue.
You go to these known places and choose to see these things...whats happening now, is we go to family oriented places and see inappropriate stuff.
So you are not making a point that goes with the crack down on public obsenity.
But I know what you mean, the double standard that goes on.
I guess one thing people (everybody) should remember, ther are certain places to go to to do certain activities that would be considered alright.
Alcohol and getting drunk: in a pub, club or your house.
Topless: in sun tanning machine, your private swimming pool, your home.
Hanky Panky: your home, hotel, furnished apartment.
Kisses on the lips: Home, hotel, quick one in the car.
Checking on the underwear status: bathroom, living room, kitchen, hotel, furnished apartment.
you get the idea and can see there is more than one option to practice any of the popular listed activities. So do it right.
and use your jelly
Anon 19 July, 19:06 - brilliantly said!
:)
To the anon who goes to 'family oriented' places.
I am the anon who had a nice night out (that was btw a sarcastic remark - i never met so many lowlives in one spot - referring to the visitors not the entertainers)
I get your point:
Let it happen but not in front of our kids' eyes.
Fine. (Btw, the sight of a crossdresser is known to permanently hinder children's brain development and I am not sure what the sight does to the parents...)
The thing is, I mostly agree with you, let the people do whatever they want in their private dwellings. And I personnally don't kiss and have sex in public...
...my point was that crossdressers most probably are not a direct threat (sic) to the UAE society.
I have a bigger problem with males walking in public holding/rubbing their private parts. I notice that on daily basis, while I can't remember encountering a crossdressing tourist.
But then again, I agree with the local population, it is their country and they can decide whatever they want. The only drawback is that you can not expect to market Dubai in the whole world and expect to only attract neocons.
anonymous @ 12:14:
"Habiby"
On the topic of inappropriate public behaviour, it's perhaps a tad stupid to address a completely random stranger as 'darling'.
"but you don't choose to become Muslim or to wear a Kandoora, why?"
Don't be so sure, I'm wearing a jallabiya right now. I've seen foreigners try to wear a kandoora in public and be laughed at, it's not an option, so don't pretend.
"Come on. These are small things."
I guess I've lived here long enough to not see them as small things; I guess I can see the bigger picture.
It always starts with something small and leads to something big, or as in this case it started with something big and lead to smaller things.
Just because two people did something stupid on a beach everyone else is going to pay the price.
It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to tell you that when tourists start getting harassed for minor things (I'm not referring to the beach at all here) they will stop coming here. You can sit there and say you don't want them anyway, but your nation's GDP distribution begs to differ. In 2007 there were 5 tourists for every 1 resident.
dxbiangirl: Dubai airport had 34 million passengers last year, the population of the entire GCC is 40 million people.
The population of Yemen is 20 million (half of the GCC's population)and given that the GDP per capita of Yemen is 900 US dollars I'm sure they're lining up to fly to the UAE to book their places in 5 star hotels and shop till they drop (from malnutrition)
So if the tourists don't all come from the GCC, where will they come from... that's what I want to know.
I like how we are always threatened about tourists not coming to Dubai if we didn't allow them pratice their fetishes in public.
The ones who do not want to come to Dubai for those reasons should not, period. They should stay in their ghettos where they belong. I certainly wouldn't regret them not coming here !
"I guess I've lived here long enough to not see them as small things; I guess I can see the bigger picture."
Sam: very true. Likewise, for the Kandoora - not sure about you, but I've had a few stares and snide remarks, the few times I've worn one. Likewise, if local men, see a local girl, having a casual coffee/chat with a non local guy, you can hear the *haram - haram* whispers a mile away. This is a sad, divide that exists...yeah it's another topic.
PE: careful there, they do not come from the ghettos.
Is it me, or are Europeans just more open when it comes to acts of affection, skin show an' all in public? Personally, I get the feeling Americans generally aren't all that out and open in public.
Sam Habiby,
If you have lived long enough as you say, you would know not to take the word habiby to persnoally when it comes from someone you don't know. It is not like the habiby I would call my hubby.
We use it casually, sometimes to soften a conversation, and sometimes to be sarcastic.
Would love to see how you look like, specially in your jallabiyah...so you chose to wear it, up to you, but do you wear a wizar, do you eat rice using your hands? do you drive your car (if it was fancy) and look for a potential female prey? maybe not, so you clearly chose what suits you.
I know what you are talking about with i starting small and getting big or the reverse. But believe me and I know you know deep inside this is true...police men won't go around harrassing people who are just simply enjoying the beach with their bikinis or whatever, they won't close pubs,night clubs never. as many implied, some of the news headlines are to please us locals until the heat is down...
it is all politics.
So don't worry about your tanning, swimming, clubbing experience, you will enjoy them as you wish.
Come on...we locals got used to having a mix of people around, soem annoy us true, but many are friends now.
If you want to have some adventure, use your jelly before you do it and then make sure you can handle the consequences (like you would in any other country)...
Sam lets see a picture...Pleasssssssseeeeeee
If someone wore the kandoura properly no one would have laughed at him so u certainly didn't !
Am loving reading this conversation... Some reason, seems nostalgic for me...
PE be nice, if more of us actually took the time to show them how to wear it and make them feel comfortable wearing them, w would have been communicating at a better level.
But we choose to keep a distance, as if by doing that we can preserve our religion, culture or identitiy. No jelly there for sure.
We tell them to get to know us better yet we create a divide.
Approach, if they are not interested then it is their problem. But when they come and we make them feel more foreign than they already feel, then we have no one to blame but our selves.
Again, we have so many option, but not so many functional jellies..
Can someone explain to me why do people need to get disinhibited, naked french kissing, and have sex publc to market Dubai as the ideal tourist destination? Why do we need to adjust so many thing that we consider part of our religion and culture to accomodate those tourists? every land has its laws?
This keeps coming up as a downside to attracting people.Maybe someone need to explain to me why? not that I would change my mind about anything, I am just curious how other jellies think? or not?
Until then, keep your pants, hands in your own pockets, tongues to talk.
hehehehe just teasing
by the way this is to the anon who denies going out and having a nice night out...
What the crap is all this talk about jelly? are you guys talking about the KY connection to the whole beach sex topic?
This statement sounds wrong on so many levels:
"If you want to have some adventure, use your jelly before you do it and then make sure you can handle the consequences"
Anyway...
"so you chose to wear it, up to you, but do you wear a wizar, do you eat rice using your hands? do you drive your car (if it was fancy) and look for a potential female prey?"
What can I say it's the only comfortable thing to wear when the temperature is 50 degrees C and my AC keeps on blowing up.
I eat rice with my hands.
I don't drive a car.
"police men won't go around harrassing people who are just simply enjoying the beach with their bikinis or whatever"
Really? I'm not so sure I believe that. Let's wait a month or two and see if any tourist pops up in the press with any interesting story to tell.
"So don't worry about your tanning, swimming, clubbing experience, you will enjoy them as you wish."
I don't tan, I don't swim and I don't go clubbing. This will affect people far more than in just those ways.
you dirty minded Sam....
No KY stuff ...the jelly is the brain.
See how dirty minded you've become living here?!
So do you get a mouthful of rice when you eat with your hands, I don't, but I never give up.
You don't tan, much bette, who wants skin cance, leather skin or sun spots..Great choice Sam.
You don't go clubbing...excellent, too crowded I hear, too loud, premature hear loss.
So far you are doing fine.
I agree, time will tell, so let us see. I promise you,if they start harrassing tourists, I will start harrassing them to stop. I have wasta..LOL, just kidding.
You don't drive...once you do get a car, tell me if you choose to become like some of the idiots who insist on giving me their numbers when I promise them I will give to the police (which I do) hehehehe
so when will I see your picture sam
where is Dubai Jazz? ha? Inshallah bas 6al3 3ala demash2
Samuraisam, u are way too optimistic. I don't think the day where police crack women in bikinis is anytime soon.
I hope ur conclusion (even though is unlikely) is true because after all it is either us in those beaches or them. I certainly don't feel like going to such places because of them!
I am all for a compromise though. Ban speedos and bikinis in public beaches and allow them in private beaches ...
or do something like Abu Dhabi, 2/3 of the beach for families and 1/3 for bachelors. It certainly cleaner there ...
And so it begins
oh Sam....
Gay etc has always been an issue everywhere, as long as there is gay parade, you should know, gay people are still trying to make a point (heterosexuals don't have parades).
I feel for them and to be honest, I am clueless to where I stand when it comes to that issue, on one hand I have few gay friends (from work) who I happened to find out they are gay later on..on the other hand, I have my religion and beliefs.
That is a big topic on its own.
Sam, where is the pictures?
Greetings from Minnesota.
Good idea for a blog.
I say screw Dubai tourism. go to turkey. women can go topless there, alcohol is allowed and the food is free in hotels (at least included in the amount you pay for the room every day). Dubai is a shithole by comparison. Don't like it? Don't come here. otherwise, you Dubai folks can take your rules and things and shove them where the sun doesn't shine. but that won't help your tourism much.
This was always going to happen when they opened up for tourism.
It doesn't make it right that people are breaking UAE laws and social mores, but it does make it inevitable.
The only solution I can see is to try and funnel people into areas where they won't be offended by one another.
Earmark a couple of hotels for more conservative people: whether older expat tourists, tradiitonal Arab families, business people who are on work not pleasure, and so on. Have a strict dress code, bar all working girls from the premise.
Go more laissez faire at the other hotels, but make it known to the local emirati community that while not off-limits to them, these are now "cash cow" western style entertainment centres and if they visit them they may be offended. Sex and nudity in public is banned in most western nations anyway, so no need to allow this, but just go easy on the kissing and skimpy beach clothing.
At the moment there's a clash, and it isn't going to be resolved by expecting tourists to understand let alone comply with most "decency" rules. It's not that they shouldn't, it is that they just won't.
Some people are gay (yes, even Muslims). Get over it.
Some people are transvestites. Get over it.
Some people are left-handed. Get over it.
The problem with countries trying to run themselves in line with religious beliefs that were written down centuries ago (and by people who did not witness the events they describe, but relied on oral traditions), is that there's no science, there's no research, there's just 'God says this'.
ok so i did this crazy thing with the jelly under my skull (as recommended by a very brave anonymous person) and i still cant understand how this is mirrored in the west..
in england a teacher wanted to educate pupils with her face covered entirely..
in australia a certain prominent muslim leader was calling australian women pigs and saying they deserved it if they were raped.. words echoed in the course of gang rapes occuring by local muslim gangs - entirely on a racial basis..
it is so easy to turn this debate around as the examples flow..
but surely this is not the point..
dubai has welcomed an onflow on foreign wealth and rendered its traditional communities a fractional minority.. it is hard to imagine that in this celebration of the golden calf the local community could have for a second thought that the international superstars buying in to the region and acquiring mega yachts bla bla bla on funky shaped artificial islands would then convert to traditional ways of life only held by a think slice of the original society that of the place..
that is ridiculous.. its almost like saying that muslims that migrate to australia should adopt australian aboriginal customs..
but that wasnt the question.. the question was how this valiant demand for cultural fairness pans out when the tables are turned..
these questions are typically asked NOT to attack the subject matter but rather to assist all parties to better validate their reasons..
it would be nice if people involved - whether local or foreign - could undertake this exercise because i think the global news provides more than enough material to use while considering the issues..
hoping to find a more meaningful answer than just "use your jelly"..
PE: you're welcome.
prour emirati.. i have more than jelly.. but feel most welcome to exercise yours and kindly consider addressing the point..
shukran
Calling people "pigs" are wrong, we never said that was an acceptable behavior.
But explain to me dear, how does showing your but equates to hiding it? which is more offensive to the kind of jelly you have that doesn't get it?
Asking to teach with face covered, nobody should have listened to her as long as the allow her to cover her hair wth Hijab and wear modest clothing.
But how many do call people pigs openly? how many ask to teach with their face covered?
I/we never claimed that those incidents you have mentioned Mr.More than jelly were justifiable or right. whatever those government decided to do with those individuals were their business.
And by the way, the reason I am anonymoous is that I have a name that invites bullies internatinally, so why bother put my real name and get taunted. My parents were waiting for my arrival for 7 years and they vowed to call me the sad name I have as a supersitious believe of whatever..so why bother open up a blog,put a nickname that is not going to reveal who I am anyways just to be brave for you Mr. Jelly in the belly so far.
And Kefiee, kaif halek? kaif Espania? Fee foloos wayed?
Sam...sho'll askhbar? kaif el mokayef?
http://www.arabianbusiness.com/525371-wife-beating-tops-family-units-caseload?ln=en
best to keep things behind closed doors
^^ How is wife beating related to this topic anyway "Mr am looking for trouble"? I bet that wife beating occur in the west more than it does here !
shu? mafi mokh? ani bifham menih ya habibti.. saken fi israel wa bihki arabi kwayes.. i can start writing in hebrew but that would be rude.. no?
anyway.. ur embarrasing urself.. and yet you refrain to address the point..
doesnt really matter.. its not your responsibility.. no one is addressing the point raised earlier..
the point being that when muslims immigrate to western countries (who grant them citizenship and equal rights) they are by and large very valiant and passionate about defending those rights as a recognizable subculture.. whether they form a huge minority like in france and the UK or a less sizeable one like in Australia or elsewhere..
however - when westerners move to dubai - notwithstanding the fact that they are actively headhunted and lured to move there by government devised taxation plans and aggressive recruitment campaigns and investment schemes - once they arrive it is made clear to them that no matter how much they contribute - give - produce - develop - they will always be taxed higher and considered culturally inferior and subservient to the emirati community..
i cannot count how many times recruiters have approached me over the years for jobs based in the UAE decorated in promises of lavish riches and an ultra modern lifestyle..
i have never been to the UAE but following this blog for just over two years now has been very educational..
surely the contradiction is not that obscure..
and we're not talking about isolated individuals.. we are talking about millions of people who seek to defend their culture in their new homeland or during their holiday time - wearing burqas and galabias and whatever else.. just as so many of the westerners seek to do when they come..
why do think a westerner should feel more comfortable at a beach where all people are covered head to toe than you should around scantily clad women.. and why should the rules change.. where is the parity..
once they arrive it is made clear to them that no matter how much they contribute - give - produce - develop - they will always be taxed higher and considered culturally inferior and subservient to the emirati community..
Culturally inferior and taxed higher? Can you give me an example of this absurd observation? Unless u are talking about citizenship which is solely the right of Emiratis alone? Or are u talking about our laws which no one has the right to complain about except the citizen of the country?
Beside, there is another side of the story. What did expatriates do to assimilate in the UAE society to deserve suck privilege? Nothing, so there is no reason why we should grant it to them. Also, about 40% of the Emiratis are from different origins so I don't think that naturalizing more is the right decision.
Considering that u are Jewish living in Israel u should be the last to comment on such issues. Remember, in Israel u automatically become a citizen only because u are a Jew and it is almost impossible to get one if u are an Arab or a Muslim.
i cannot count how many times recruiters have approached me over the years for jobs based in the UAE decorated in promises of lavish riches and an ultra modern lifestyle..
Stay there, we certainly don't want an Israeli to come here !
i have never been to the UAE but following this blog for just over two years now has been very educational..
Believe me, this blog only host bunch of whiners. Reality is that most of the people are not as extreme or exaggerators as the ones u see in this blog. In fact, I was shocked from the level of ignorance when I first joined this blog!
and we're not talking about isolated individuals.. we are talking about millions of people who seek to defend their culture in their new homeland or during their holiday time - wearing burqas and galabias and whatever else.. just as so many of the westerners seek to do when they come..
why do think a westerner should feel more comfortable at a beach where all people are covered head to toe than you should around scantily clad women.. and why should the rules change.. where is the parity..
If they are not comfortable seeing women covered from head to toe in their countries they should deal with it themselves. We deal with it in our way and they deal with it in their way. They have their own solution and we have our own. I certainly don't care about what westerns think in our countries !
As I said, each goverment has the right to decide how far they should go to please whatever lands on their country, nobody is defending burqas on the beach.
But going to your point of burqas versus bikinis, we never said bikinis should be banned, although there are policies about how skimpy bikinis are allowed on beaches internationally and we should have that here and have family beaches that can restric such attires, why not? please all?
Burqas, bikinis...everybody has their opinion, but most importantly every country has their rules, and the common understanding is to folow them.
So if you are bothered so much by the burqas have them removed and deal with your own created human right group who will frown on that.
Sex on the beach, topless on the beach is not acceptable, full stop.
You as a jewish israeli should know better than to object. your women cover their hairs with wigs or cloth, they wear loose clothes and don't shake hands with men, when they have their monthly periods they don't go near their husbands and they don't mix meat with milk...so many rules, so many things that people in the west have accomodated for you...so what is your issue when it comes to our belief.
The people I addressed in Arabic are people who speak it, both who have been living here for so long. So why should you be offended when it is not directed to you and does not concern you.
Lirun use your rotten jelly and stop making a fool of your self as you continue to play the dumb person you are not.
People come here by choice and those who break the rules, believe it or not are not the poor Asians, they are the ones who get he good jobs here, adn the ones who feel they are above the law...those people come because they get a good job offer and want a change of venue..we need them as much as they need and want the offer.
So we are equal.
Lirun,
Seriously, there's no point debating with some label posters or invisible jerks. It's like they've got hate & contempt pre-programmed into their empty system, coupled with a false notion that everybody else is inferior. There's no such thing as civilized dialog, which enables one to move a step further towards compromise or reconciliation but instead maintain their adamant approach in absolutely every aspect of their lives, which leads them ten-fold back.
The other theory I can conclude is that most of them blame expats for absolutely every single occurrence within the perimeter. I don't find that surprising due to the robotic nature of their existence where being naive, dumb coupled with a lack of exposure contributes to their pre-programmed arrogance.
Those who don't possess the above-cited qualities or mind-set are busy generating billions at the expense of the less articulate & intelligent.
Based on my theory, judge for yourself whether you can move forward with them or continue going round in a circle!
^^ aren't u doing the exact same thing u accuse others of? You are anonymous and u are stereotyping the whole Emirati society :P
LOL to he guy who has given advice to Lirun.
Get over it. compromize, Dubai says everythig about compromize, what do you want to do next, ask the ban of hijab and mosques in Dubai?
Just for saying sex on the beach and making out is annoying us locals?
Since when those two things are part of your culture? Some of us believe it or not have been abroad and seen the world and know that decent people think the same, topless beaches are private and clearly known, why should we have our public beaches become a topless one?
Is that the deal breaker for you to compromize? A stupid arguement on your side and Lirun, cause he knows better. You compromize when you are in another peoples land and NOBODY here justified any "demands" done by our fellow Muslims abroad. And we are NOT discussing that.
It is OUR country we are talking about, NOBODY is FORCING you to come here, WE must have OFFERED you a deal that you found tempting and for that YOU came.
When you have a choice, MAKE IT.
YOU don't get to make the rules of other peoples land, fix yours first.
Yes, we need the influx of peple here, we enjoy mixing, but that does not mean we should allow you totell us what part of our religion or culture we should keep or get rid of.
Enough with the entitlement b.s.
Enough with threatning us going down hill without you.
When we were blessed with the oil back in the old days, we did not have topless women on our beach niehter we had stupid drunk couples making out in public.
So love it or leave it.
You are an adult you have the choice to pack up and leave.
PE, well said :)
"What did expatriates do to assimilate in the UAE society to deserve suck privilege? Nothing"
Oh! Really? How do you know that? Have you bothered to take an effort and understand/know the "expatriates" you accuse off? Or, are you amongst the ones who snide at someone (obviously quite anxious) whilst wearing a Kandoora for the very first time? What do you know about people like my parents, friends or I - huh? The fact is you know nothing - absolutely nothing, of the thousands who've lived and built that nation for decades - how dare you!
I believe, the Proudest Emirati, once said - "We are not Arab, we are not Muslims - we are Emirati". Obviously, you get Hernia, each time you hear Zayed's words.
Lirun: UAE is not Australia. Do not be fooled by flashy buildings, glitzy malls or *tax-free* monies. Most of it is at the surface. Personally, in my opinion - majority of the communities that make up UAE are conservative in their ways of life. The true local folks are quite tolerant and hospitable. Believe me, they always had people at the beaches with swim wear an' all - even back in the 70's and 80's. The difference then, people *behaved*. There was none of this skimpy - nothing left to imagination micro speedos or beach sexapades - or worse, assaulting a cop. It truly has gotten out of hand in the past 5 - 6 years. Often I feel this place is truly where East meets West, hence, there needs to be a higher level of understanding/compromises from all sides.
Plus: you have to understand, people react in certain ways when the only home they have is practically, under a proxy foreign invasion. You or I shall react quite similarly if our ways of life were practically under siege. The (jelly) anonymous is very fair and correct with most of his/her comments.
hey rosh
fine - but..
once you become a thinly veiled yet unequivocal micro minority - how much of this do u continue to control..
how long can u go on dictating the tone to 85% of your society just because you were once a larger group..
will the UAE ever concede to its demographic shift - consider a more integrative approach and perhaps contemplate that its society has metamorphozed or are we likely to see wht some may consider cultural tyranny forever..
by the way i am not making these comments to offend anyone or criticise anyone.. i am seeking to understand people's perspectives..
and for the record 80% of jewish israel is secular and our women wear bikin bottoms so small they look like they have been eaten by their behinds.. but thats besides the point.. only a tiny portion of the religious 20% is wig wearing.. but the stigma is fascinating..
^^ Are u trying to suggest another ethnic cleansing? Like the ones ur grandparents commited on the Palestinians prior to ur illegitimate independence?
I believe, the Proudest Emirati, once said - "We are not Arab, we are not Muslims - we are Emirati". Obviously, you get Hernia, each time you hear Zayed's words.
I don't think that he ever said that but even if he did it doesn't necesserly mean that I would agree with it. I am a Muslim, Arab and an Emirati !
proud emirati..
r u mentally ill or just pretending?
my questions have nothing to do with israel/palestine.. why do u have a problem separating my nationality from my questions?
what sort of perverted racism is this?
cant u deal with a question from an israeli about the cultural composition of your country?
its just a discussion.. no matter how many insults you inject - it doesnt fix or break anything..
why dont u try focussing.. u might have something valuable to say..
until this point u sadly have failed to do so..
antisemitism? whatever makes you happy..
i was asking to hear opinions.. the ack of awareness of opinions is hardly something to be ashamed of.. but the vile racist responses to my bona fide question are unnecessary..
i wish there was someone who had enough courage to thoroughly deal with this topic rather than merely escape to yet another discussion about traffic and architecture..
"I don't think that he ever said that but even if he did it doesn't necesserly mean that I would agree with it. I am a Muslim, Arab and an Emirati !"
Yes he did. Check with your friends, and perhaps they can enlighten you. The fact you agree with it, or not, personally, is your issue.
"Are u trying to suggest another ethnic cleansing? "
That's just not plain offensive - it's completely retarded!
Tell me, what is quite *threatening* to you? I completely understand the aspect, and wanting to protect, preserve - local culture/ways of life. And the large majority of communities which make up UAE, are similar in their ways of life as well. So what makes you give that statement??
I value positive aspects of your society - at least of the ones I am aware of. I spend all my growing years there, hence appreciate the experience. The very reason I spend my time, checking this blog, and debating with you or anyone else - whilst living on the other side of this planet, (where I've a fantastic personal & professional life) is because, there is an attachment to that place . If you cannot understand or see that - mercifully, please do not judge/comment.
^^ oh, believe me, I have lots to say about such topics but I think u have to do ur homework before asking such tricky inaccurate biased question.
how long can u go on dictating the tone to 85% of your society just because you were once a larger group..
will the UAE ever concede to its demographic shift - consider a more integrative approach and perhaps contemplate that its society has metamorphozed or are we likely to see wht some may consider cultural tyranny forever..
Your fundamental understanding of this issue is baseless so it is either u pretend to be dumb or u don't know what u are talking about !
^^ "Homework"? "Tricky inaccurate biased question"???
Oh wise one, please enlighten me!
^^ this was for Lirun
What do the "large majority of communities which make up UAE" share with us? I certainly don't see anything similar (which is what threatining our life style) except the fact the we are living in the same place.
I value positive aspects of your society - at least of the ones I am aware of. I spend all my growing years there, hence appreciate the experience. The very reason I spend my time, checking this blog, and debating with you or anyone else - whilst living on the other side of this planet, (where I've a fantastic personal & professional life) is because, there is an attachment to that place . If you cannot understand or see that - mercifully, please do not judge/comment.
Am not questioning that !
Rosh !
"Homework"? "Tricky inaccurate biased question"???
Oh wise one, please enlighten me!
1) When we say UAE society we refers to the Emiratis only, we don't refer to the 85% Lirun was referring to. Those 85% are expatriates whose only legal attachment to the conutry is the work contract they have so once it finish they leave, nothing more and nothing less !
2) Using the word "dictate" is inaccurate because the ones who dictate the laws and rules are the citizens of the country and the 85% are irrelevant in this regard. So such questions shouldnt be discussed this way. Same apply to saying "cultural tyranny"
. . .. . the ones who are most concerned about the rights of foreign workers in the UAE live outside of the UAE (Rosh and Lirun). . . .
interesting
Emirates is me Proud Emirati !
PE: I'll get back to you. running into a meeting, with one of your fellow citizens, who's arrived from DXB this morning.
Anon: yeah? what's your point?
ok i can understand that the 85% is foreign and whether or not im concernd about their rights is irrelevant.. im not fighting for anyone.. in fact im not fighting.. im seeking to learn form you and all the while u bury yourself into a shell and fight "back" like a 6 year old..
so my question is - given that 85% of people in your country feel otherwise - is it not something that perhaps should be taken into account.. clearly u need them there.. and is there any movement to consider an option of offering them citizenship so that they may enjoy full rights in your country?
afterall - they are not refugees seeking ur favours but largely people who have contributed to your boom and prosperity..
friends of mine who moved to the region and attempted to convince me to accept offers emphasised the fact that to a certain extent social/judicial infrastructure was lacking and so they were helping to establish key institutions that now assist your region to fire through to the next phase..
i would be grateful to anyone who did the same for me..
Lirun: personal two cents, talk of naturalization is counter productive for all. There are serious underlying issues between communities that make up UAE. I do not believe many would want to be a citizen, let alone associate until there is better understanding and integration...perhaps you know that already.
PE believes (perhaps given ignorance) only Emiratis make up a society in the UAE - hence unable to comprehend lives and livelihood of the 85%. The perception which comes across is that all 85% is there for a paycheck - willingly or otherwise via a contract. It's like people work in the UAE for decades and live somewhere else. It's an unfortunate perception.
Am interested to hear more on this - "were helping to establish key institutions that now assist your region to fire through to the next phase.." ?
PE: lives and livelihood aren't often supported by what passport(s)/ monetary contracts you hold - often telling you what land(s) you can frame as home. Do you feel you belong in the UAE only because a passport/document says so? Also you don't value life or your home just because people found oil - do you? Amongst a few aspects our lives are shaped from memories and experiences wherever it is one has experienced life - UAE or Zimbabwe. In several forms your life is very similar to all those who've lived as many as years as you, in any one place. When time's up you aren't an expat or a passport holder.
I see cousins who were born, raised in this part of the world - they are aware of their heritage however along with people from varied heritages they've become American (or whatever) - one community/society in it's true sense as much as possible. Likewise at Singapore. Going forward in the coming decades this sort of integration is perhaps almost inevitable in the UAE (I believe this is partly what Lirun is asking you).
Anyway I do not expect you to understand - however perhaps thought process shall develop.
Bact at the Anon^^ - do you not think/debate about people in distress outside off your country? Didn't the UAE just extend debt relief to Iraqis? Is Iraq *in the* UAE?
Am done debating this post.
@ PE
Those 85% are expatriates whose only legal attachment to the conutry is the work contract they have so once it finish they leave, nothing more and nothing less !
If so why do you expect them to assimilate? Frankly I did not understand your take on this one.
-FR
Count me out!
Anonymous
Am not asking them to assimilate. I am saying that they have no rights in the UAE in anyway because their job is their only relation with the country but if they assimilate in a way that make them a breathing walking Emiratis then they have my sympathy and I would support naturalizing them with conditions and limited numbers !
Lirun
so my question is - given that 85% of people in your country feel otherwise - is it not something that perhaps should be taken into account.. clearly u need them there.. and is there any movement to consider an option of offering them citizenship so that they may enjoy full rights in your country?
Actually the majority of the 85% don't feel otherwise. The country tell them from day one that they are expatriates and temporary worker. Also the majority of those 85% are Muslims so they don't really mind cracking down public indecency (going back to the first topic)
There is no law for naturalization in the first place. The country views those people as temporary worker and certainly don't want to hold their burden. Naturalizing them the way the country moving in right now is out the question. I can only see them being citizens if they totally assimilate in the UAE society.
i would be grateful to anyone who did the same for me..
It is a mutual relationship !
"...but if they assimilate in a way that make them a breathing walking Emiratis ..."
Perhaps you do not get it (or I do not follow you well) This is not a one way process - it shall never be a one way process. I don't think anyone from mixed backgrounds can assimilate 100% to a full bloomed Emi - well except perhaps true blue Emis themselves.
Yes, UAE is your country, however (irrespective of the fact you agree) I believe you do not have to be a true blue Emi to fit in the UAE, respect her and her ways of life....because the non-emi's shall often be hybrids - i.e. have certain traits - of the UAE, from their respective parental heritages and from Emi ways of life.
"then they have my sympathy and I would support naturalizing them with conditions and limited numbers.."
Habibi, not sympathy - they need your understanding, as much as you need theirs. Don't know why you talk about naturalization - there are vital aspects people need to identify and understand prior. I don't think anyone would want to belong unless understood & respected on similar wavelengths.
I re-read comments from yesterday and apologize if I came across tad bit rude or aggressive - didn't mean to. Am sorry if the post was taken off track.
Perhaps you do not get it (or I do not follow you well) This is not a one way process - it shall never be a one way process. I don't think anyone from mixed backgrounds can assimilate 100% to a full bloomed Emi - well except perhaps true blue Emis themselves.
Yes, UAE is your country, however (irrespective of the fact you agree) I believe you do not have to be a true blue Emi to fit in the UAE, respect her and her ways of life....because the non-emi's shall often be hybrids - i.e. have certain traits - of the UAE, from their respective parental heritages and from Emi ways of life.
This is where we dissagree ;)
The ones who were naturalized are the ones who totally assimilated in the UAE society. Emirati are totally influenced by Islam as a religion and Arabic as a language so those play the major part of our identity, then we have the other small things like the dialect, our views in general things in life our habits ..... anyone who doesn't have those will certainly be considered a stranger !
"..Emirati are totally influenced by Islam as a religion"
OK. not *all* emi's are *totally* influenced by Islam (am sure you know :). Kinda unfair to claim a good Muslim is any holier (or less) than a good Christian or Jew and vice versa - don't you think? That said - opening up religion is a whole other topic.
".... and Arabic as a language so those play the major part of our identity, then we have the other small things like the dialect, our views in general things in life our habits"
When I say *hybrid* it means understanding/speaking the language and ways of life. So we actually agree there.
These souls inevitably have certain traits from their parental heritages. It's in their genes my friend - I mean you can soak 'em in emi water every day, however certain traits shall forever remain - there is nothing wrong with that. I wouldn't think their sentiments on UAE is any less than yours.
My two fils.
Oh, religion does play one major part of the Emiratis in general and their view of life, most of it is influenced by it actually but that is different topic as u said.
It would be surprising if u didn't know that !
i think it remains an interesting topic.. ie the extent to which foreigners in the UAE are required/expected to comply with local custom and how that contrasts with the expectations of muslims and arabs specifically to align themselves to the cultures of other countries that they move to.. obviously the difference being that these countries do in fact offer citizenship and the whole 9 yards..
i dont have any finite opinion about it..
but i note the resistance to touch the topic and how unPC it might seem to examine it..
If things are so difficult, who are going to occupy these buildings or are the new owners expeted to buy property (as investment) and stay back in their own countries while it magically appreciates due to certain laws that keep changing (ie no singles sharing, no families sharing etc) This place certainly defies all known laws of economics! Cheers and keep it up!
Sam-whatever.
I said the lights were on!
Re-READ my comment please.
Just becos I go to the movies doesn't mean I WATCH OBSCENE scenes!
OKAY!
YOur the idiot for assuming the lights were off, and for thinking I watch any kissing scene in any movie ;)
What's wrong with kissing? It's perfectly natural thing to do for two people who love eachother. Would you rather they beat the crap out of eachother? That explains the many wife beater Emiratis here...
@ dxbianGirl
Amazing! Going to watch a movie and closing ones eyes or looking away? During intimate/steamy scenes, plugging ones ears as well? That is a measure of your strength of character! Perhaps if one were to exert a little bit more effort one could over come the desire to watch the movie.
All the best!
-FR
so i have a question - there is a very popular new show in turkey that has swept the arab world by storm.. and it is modern and revealing and hot and sexy..
should the show be aired in the UAE or not..
;)
Lirun, so what, what is the point you are trying to make.
And by the way, there are many other shows like that aired years ago. Just like "20% of your jewish people are practicing" we have a percent that I choose not to make up dear...watching movies doesn't have much to do with how w live our lives.
Do you do believe in everything you watch? Do you practice everything you watch? Not always..
But some do fantasize being the male or female actor in a porn movie, right? doesn't mean that person will take their pants off and throw his/her belief out of the window, does it, some might, but most will choose to be wiser.
The thing about this series is the handsome guy, extremely handsome, that is all.
I would never hire you as a lawyer even if you were offered to me for free, you are never rational yet call people irrational and not making points and you are jelly less.
Now go watch that series, you might learn soemthing and blog about it.
haha
cute
i dont see the difference between tv content and live conduct.. not sure why one should be legal and one shouldnt be..
personally i dont watch tv..
and i also dont work for people who cannot distinguish brain and low class fast food desert..
but cheers anyway and thanks for entertaining the thought of offering me employment haha..
i guess my point was - does the exposure to "unsavoury content" matter.. its still along the same lines as the original thread..
my curiosity peaked..
its amazing how personally people are taking his discussion..
not sure why..
Curious, I still bet that the nationalities u are coming from beat their wives more than what we do here;)
Beating wives has never been a common practice here :)
lol lirun, I think you are making friends, really :)
Jelly anon's got a point - just because many of us watch violent movies (say a Texas chainsaw massacre) doesn't mean we are out there slicing & dicing :)
Personal two fils: people are aware of the "birds and the bees" - most just don't display it all out in the open - there's a time and a place to share a passionate kiss or sexy lingerie play. This is where East meets West comes in. A while back PE had a post on that local dude kissing his wife at their wedding.
Anyway to each his own. When it comes to public behaviour, they've got a set of rules. For the most part it's all fair and not asking too much i.e. it's not KSA like - at the same time it's not California or Holland. That is my opinion.
PE: It doesn't matter what colour or race - anyone who beats his wife is a weak low life scum and a loser his entire life.
Lirun,
We get to control the t.v, but not public behavior. Can switch off t.v anytime, but can't switch off couples having sex on a public beach. And don't say "just go to another beach" or walk away...its a public beach.
Anyways, not offering you a job, not as a lawyers or as desert, both are fat.
And maybe you should start watching t.v and blog about how it affected you. The series is calle Noor, you might be able to understand few things with your broken Arabic.
Thank you Rosh for thinking I make sense, maybe you can explain to Lirun. hehehehhe
and Lirun, how do you see me taking it personal? I am explaining to you what you don't seem to understand.
and Jelly is how brains tend to wobble and how to it feels to touch. I don't eat either...And Jelly is for children, so that cheap fast food childish jelly is how i see your brain sometimes ;)
Now lets make peace
And let our beach be a place were crabs pinch the buts of you who chose to get naked, and the jelly fish to sting those who choose to do the hanky panky. Let the beach be a place where children make sand castles, not adults making a porn movie.
Say Amen
you forgot to wish that it be a place where surfers can surf pollution free..
Told you no jelly
we don't have big enough waves to surf.
yo mr jelly brain!!
who said there were no surf spots in uae?
ohhhhh ok, maybe.
Some jelly there.
Miss Jelly please.
Amen!
loved the debate - totally!:)
a-men to all good things!
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