More than a month has passed since the hostilities in Lebanon began. Over 1000 civilian casualties, and more than 3000 injured and a million left homeless. Civilian convoys fleeing the action have been bombed. Shelters that housed children, women and men where turned into furnaces. Cluster bombs have been used, and its other ugly brother the napalm shower was also invited to the slaughter party.
A supposed cease fire of sorts is looming.. The thousands of pictures and videos taken in Lebanon by various news agencies from around the Globe, only rubles and bodies were found, not a single rocket launcher was found nor a weapon of any size or kind . If they were found we would have seen the preview clip, the clip itself and an interview with the heroes that executed the crusade repeated endlessly on Sky TV, FOX, and CNN.
After a month of bombing, Hizoballah is still holding ground effectively. Rockets are launched deep inside the occupied territory has persisted and even increased since the bombing. So what have they been targeting the past four weeks?
No need to get academic or ultra-analytical here, the answer is self evident in the pictures and videos we have al seen. They have been killing civilians in desperation and frustration at their inability to make any noticeable progress in completing their own set goals. They have resorted to the same tactics that hey have always employed in their desperate times. Kill and maim civilians, and have their ever ready flock of idiot parrots justify these killing by using their ever shrinking memory span, and their McChicken flavored logic.
.
These ignorant feathered imbeciles have the audacity to actually claim that we [Arabs and Muslims] have no love for our children, women and families. They subtly accuse us of being cowards that use our flesh and blood as shields. They claim that we can’t be possibly be fighting for freedom because we are barbarians and savages that could not grasp the concept of being free let alone freedom..
How dare they?
For we love our children and our families more than they will ever know. We love our freedom, for we have been free since time has been called time. Slaughter our children and families in Gaza, Qana and the West Bank and you will not find – to your surprise -flowers and roses and a panel of objective calm social sciences professors waiting to debate you and your racist kind.
Cowards will always cower behind walls of steel and lies when the tide turns and their cluster bombs and napalm showers are effective no more.
Hesham
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the answer is self evident in the pictures and videos we have al seen. They have been killing civilians in desperation and frustration at their inability to make any noticeable progress in completing their own set goals.
I don't think anyone can with certainty say that it is "self evident", unless that person has perhaps been in the front lines. You could perhaps think that from looking at the pictures coming at us, but that doesn't necessarily make it so. I can see houses being bombed and destroyed, I can see cars and trucks being bombed, I can see the tanks rolling in, etc. But I see nothing of military installations destroyed or soldiers killed. Perhaps that's because it didn't happen, perhaps not.
These ignorant feathered imbeciles have the audacity to actually claim that we [Arabs and Muslims] have no love for our children, women and families.
I'm sure you care for and cherish your loved ones just as much as anyone. Perhaps I'm missing something but aren't they claiming Hezbollah are those things, not Arabs and Muslims in general? There's a distinction to be made, surely? It's like claiming all American are bloodthirsty killers just because Bush and his posse invaded Iraq. It doesn't make no sense.
They subtly accuse us of being cowards that use our flesh and blood as shields.
If it is true (notice the if) that Hezbollah fires these rockets from within normal civilian neighborhoods, it seems that is using their own flesh and blood as shields.
This is a sad war for everyone affected on both sides. Posting this sort of thing to this blog, I think is inappropriate. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but putting it like this on this blog, can only infect an already infected discussion and serves no purpose in keeping this an open place for people to come to discuss things. There should be a discussion about these issues, of course, but if this type of post continues here, I think we'll drive a lot of people away. And with some comments on posts on the site, the blog is getting increasingly close to getting blocked, I would think.
I rather like the McChicken. It has been occasionally been usurped by that brash pretender - the Chicken Big Mac - though.
And standing atop a pile of rubble and bodies is hardly hoisting the flag on Iwo Jima.
This war was all about the disproportionate response, the idea that if you attack the Israelis they are not just going after Hezbollah, they are also going after anyone who ever considered them in a positive light.
I don't agree with this tactic at all -- I think it violates the Laws of Land Warfare as outlined by the Geneva Conventions -- but I have a strong suspicion that it will be effective in the long run. Short of all out war, you will probably not see missiles launched from Lebanon again. The price has been made too high.
Short of all out war, you will probably not see missiles launched from Lebanon again. The price has been made too high.
Exactly. In the six years since Israel completely withdrew from Lebanon, Hezbollah has repeatedly fired rockets into Israel with the explicit aim of deliberately murdering civilians. Israel has time and time again complained to the UN and leaders in the West, all of whom have shrugged their shoulders and done nothing. They all agree that Hezbollah should be disarmed, but not the Lebanese government nor UN nor the West has shown it is either willing or able to stop Hezbollah attacking Israel.
An newly elected Isreali Prime Minister is only going to be allowed by his electorate to tolerate these attacks for so long. He has a duty to protect his citizens from an outside attack. With very few options on the table, Israel have taken the course or action described by i,bobo above whereby they attempt to destroy Hezbollah, and make damn sure that if the Lebanese don't like the way they do it, then they'd better make sure they do it themselves next time.
The Lebanese and its supporters in the Middle East have a simple choice: get Hezbollah to stop attacking Israel, or get hammered by Israel every time an attack takes place. There is not third option, that is the stark choice. It's time to choose.
It's extremely sad and beyond human ability to bear what is happening. Innocent civilians are being targeted and killed. Neither party is following the Geneva conventions.
250 bombs dropped on civilian areas in one day!
250 rockets fired into civilian areas in one day!
Bombs! Rockets! Rockets! Bombs!
Civilians being killed on both sides (are there really 2 sides?).
Is it morally or religiously acceptable?
and it was a news for me that 6 years ago Israel completely withdrew from Lebanon..have u heard about sheeba farms??
The Sheeba farms was originally held by Syria, and captured by Israel from Syria in 1967. What has this got to do with Lebanon, other than to serve as a handy excuse for Hezbollah to launch rockets at Israel.
Yes..you are so right Tim..let Israel occupy our lands..murder thousands of civilians every year but make sure no one raises even a feeble voice..
Okay, fine. You have chosen a course of action - violence against Israel - and that is your choice. Just don't moan when violence comes back in your direction once your choice has been made.
I don’t see what’s “inappropriate” about this post. Hesham is freely expressing his take on this terrible war and this is a community and global issue. This is what blogs are for. We had some of the silliest and non-issue posts here and they’re still there; just scroll down and you’ll find plenty.
However speaking of choices:
- Israel had a choice to negotiate with the PLO, but for many years kept insisting that it was just a terrorist organization that should be destroyed, that the Palestinians didn’t exist as a nation, that the occupation of Palestinian and Arab land was OK. They chose non-recognition, denial, hostility, and occupation.
- Israel had a choice to leave Lebanon after the 1978 invasion, but it chose to create a “security zone” in South Lebanon and kept it through occupation and a proxy mercenary group of local thugs.
- Israel had a choice to leave Lebanon after the 1982 invasion, but it chose to stay in South Lebanon. Its occupation is directly responsible for the creation of Hizbollah which fought Israel, made its occupation too costly and then forced it to leave in 2000.
- Israel had a choice of sorting out all remaining issues with Lebanon once and for all (Shebaa Farms, prisoners, land mine maps, violations of blue line) but it chose not to do that. It chose to keep the tension and potential for violence.
- Israel had a choice of respecting Lebanon’s sovereignty and the blue line, but it chose to continue violating Lebanese air space and territorial waters almost on a daily basis (as the UN has documented) and occasionally shot and killed civilians on the other side for no reason. IT WASN”T ONLY HIZBOLLAH THAT WAS VIOLATING THE BLUE LINE!
- After the capture of the 2 Israeli soldiers last month, Israel had a choice of fighting a war that is proportionate to the violation and where the laws of war and rules of engagement are respected, but it chose to fight a total war and a dirty war where civilians, roads, residential buildings, roads, bridges, power stations, fuel pumps, cars on roads, refugee caravans, Red Cross ambulances, aid trucks, and ordinary families are the primary targets. Israel chose to follow the ways of the ruthless war criminals and the fascists; you can think of the right names, it’s not that hard.
- Israel had a choice of sparing the crowded neighborhood of Ruweis in Beirut yesterday, but instead chose to drop 20 heavy missiles on it in 2 minutes, completely leveling 8 high rise buildings with families inside them and severely damaging a large number of buildings nearby; it’ll probably go into history (and the Guinness Book of Records) as the shortest and most intensive and destructive single attack on a residential area in modern times.
- Israel had a choice of sparing itself the unprecedented humiliation of not being able to dismantle Hizbollah or dislodge it from South Lebanon after using all of its military might for 33 days against a few thousand lightly–armed fighters, but it chose to press on, drunk with hubris and folly of power and content to be at the service of the neocons and their bloody vision of a new Middle East. Now it has very little to show, except the devastated houses and bridges and 1200 civilian deaths and of course its own disgrace.
- Israel had a choice of sparing civilians on both sides the continued mayhem and fear if they accepted Hizbollh’s offer of conducting the fighting on the basis of the April Understanding (reached between both sides in 1996 after the first Qana massacre), i.e. avoiding bombing civilian targets by both sides,; but Israel ignored the offer repeatedly and made a strategic choice of involving the civilians population as part of the target list.
- Israel supporters have a choice of seeing this war as it is, a criminal war that should be condemned and opposed and, or cheer this war unconditionally as a defensive war where poor Israel was just defending, yet again, its threatened survival against an evil and mortal danger and where its now the Arabs and the UN responsibility to “finish” what Israel failed to do militarily. The choice is simple, but its moral and political consequences are not.
- The Lebanese people can choose between following Israeli threats and dictates and the poisonous advice of Israel’s “friends” from around the world and succumb to the pressure, divide its new-found unity, accept a new master, no less worse than the Syrians, forgive what Israel had done to their country and just pretend that this war never happened and that Israel is a good neighbor (and join the New Middle East club); or they can choose to strengthen their national unity, recover their occupied land, release their prisoners, build a sovereign and STRONG state, one that is capable of defending itself and stopping any future aggression, take Israel to the Hague to make it pay for its wanton campaign of death and destruction, build the country to make it again the thriving center of business, education, tourism and cultural life, with all the diversity and tolerance and democracy and energy and beauty and sophistication and brains and hard work and history and peacefulness and generosity and optimism and dignity that is the sum of Lebanon; make it an example of a new Middle East that is created by it own people and with their own authentic vision, and not the deformed child of a violent birth or the embodiment of a dark and evil agenda from within or without the country. Make this choice truly yours, and let Israel, the strongest apartheid state in history (humbled and humiliated), eat its heart out or make a different strategic choice.
There is certainally 2 sides to every story.....
http://www.pmw.org.il/
Never have so many been bulls**tted so much by so few.
Freedom of speech = knowlege = own opinion.
http://www.pmw.org.il/
Heh! That will be blocked by the authorities here, to prevent anyone from accessing the other side of the story.
I got dibs on the pay-per-view rights for this rematch TwinTopaz is talking up.
If this is your idea of 'success', then your standards are set like a limbo bar.
next time Israel will be destroyed (if she continues to disrespect its neighbours!!)
And you wonder why people don't have any sympathy for the Arab cause. You're talking about destroying an entire nation, which makes you different from them, how...?
Only, the next time, when this real war you're clamoring for comes around, don't cry when civilians die. Which is what happens in a 'war', however ill defined you choose to make it. Aggression or defence, people get killed - on both sides.
The day you realise that there are mothers crying on the other side, is the day this might all be over. But for now, run along and play at war.
‘ Hizbullah DEFEATED Israel this time..
Really? Then why are Hezbollah's supporters demanding a ceasfire and Israel rejecting one? Doesn't sound like Israel is defeated to me.’
Because unlike the Israeli’s who see no wrong in the thousand-plus innocent civilian deaths, Hezbolla supporters have hearts that bleed and shatter for the murder of innocent lives. What does this have to do with defeat?
And Tim, the .il block is new for you? Why bother posting such a link here, when you know none of us can read it. How does this support your argument that has NOTHING to do with Etisalat’s proxy?
TT, Tim has proven time and time again on this blog he’s pro-Israel-all-the-way and no argument, no facts, nothing can be said to make this guy stop raving his biased views. Just read a few of the arguments in recent posts prior to this to get what I’m saying, you’re only going to upset yourself by continuing. Don’t waste your time or energy.
I was wondering what people thought of the fact that several of the Israeli dead were actually Israeli Arabs killed by Hezbollah's rockets. Are Israeli Arabs also seen to be part of the enemy by Hezbollah, or are they meant to be the kind of people who Hezbollah is seeking to liberate?
Tainted, Tim Newman tends to back up his arguments with plenty of facts. Whether people agree with him or not, it'd be nice to have some counter arguments that are a little more sensible than comments like 'it's pay back time'.
Hezbolla supporters have hearts that bleed and shatter for the murder of innocent lives
Unless, it would seem, those deaths are Jewish. Where were the calls for Hezbollah to cease its rocket attacks on Israel which were occurring months before this war?
And Tim, the .il block is new for you? Why bother posting such a link here, when you know none of us can read it.
I didn't post it, somebody else did.
Tim has proven time and time again on this blog he’s pro-Israel-all-the-way...
Yes, I am. Proud of it too.
...and no argument, no facts, nothing can be said to make this guy stop raving his biased views.
Not true. I almost always present a coherent argument, and back them up with facts when I can.
Just read a few of the arguments in recent posts prior to this to get what I’m saying, you’re only going to upset yourself by continuing.
Yes, do so. Then people can judge the merits of my arguments for themselves.
The answer is NO! Isreal miserably failed in its sole objective and got defeated ..yes DEFEATED!
Hmmm. This is a bit like their defeat in the Yom Kippur War, eh? Oh, sorry...The October War.
'I was wondering what people thought of the fact that several of the Israeli dead were actually Israeli Arabs killed by Hezbollah's rockets.'
I said innocent civilian death. I did not imply nationality or side in anyway.
I said innocent civilian death. I did not imply nationality or side in anyway.
Then I take it you have been vociferous in your condemnation of Hezbollah's repeated shelling of Israeli civilians since they pulled out of Lebanon six years ago?
I think that to claim a Hezbollah victory is something of an extrapolation of the facts. There is a ceasefire in place -- essentially what we're talking about is a draw. Both sides clearly did not get what they wanted.
But the idea that an Arab leader -- any Arab leader -- could actually fight the Israelis to a draw is startling to the Arab world primarily because in the last sixty years no one has done it. Which is going to make Nasrallah something of a cult figure and expand the influence of Hezbollah in Lebanese politics. This will destroy the Cedar Revolution (because Nasrallah is Assad's boy). Not to mention its impact on the Israeli political scene -- most people assume that Olmert is on his way out, which means Netanyahu is on his way in. And if you think that's a good thing for the Palestinian people or Arabs in general -- then you are operating out where the buses don't run.
It's strange actually. For Hezbollah a tie is a victory. For the Israelis a tie is a loss. The Middle East is definitely through the looking glass.
Look, I'm not an Arab. I'm not a Palestinian. I'm not an Israeli. I'm not a Muslim. I'm not a Jew. So I can say (as an outsider) that some of the vitriol posted here is just downright insane. It indicates a basic lack of understanding regarding the Realpolitik of the situation:
1) Israel is not going anywhere.
2) The Palestinians are not going anywhere.
3) As a result, doesn't it make sense to explore an equitable solution?
And I already know what the answer will be from both sides -
"In 1948..."
"In 1967..."
"In 1973..."
Terrorism, checkpoints, Sabra, Shatilla, rockets, soldiers, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera...
Both sides need to work past the anger and the history in order to find a reasonable solution. And that will be harder and take more courage than any military operation ever could.
Tim,
You asked why Israel didn't want a cease fire, while Hezbolla supporters did. I answered THAT question and that question alone. I grew tired of debating and watching other debates involving you in earlier posts.
For your information, I AM on the opposing side. I AM anti-Semitic and I’m damn proud of it, just as you’re proud of your stance. But that has nothing to do with the question you asked.
I see no point in debating such issues with you. You’re not going to change your mind. I’m not going to change mine. It’s that simple. Some of us; will not agree with you. And some of us realize you’re not going to agree with us.
My apologies about the .il remark. I missed it was an anon.
And before anyone tries to tear into me for admitting myself anti-Semetic, I've already explained this term and the way I see it on my blog; so please don't bother going there.
I'd rather be anti-Israeli than anti-everything-but-Israel. And to me, this issue is that black and white.
Take a stand people, either you win or lose a war, but not talk of civilian casualties. And it need not be said who has won ths war and who has been literally buried.
IF you take casualties into account, kindly do NOT disgrace yourself by talking of winning this war.
I know what I will read in the newspaper tomorrow, and I intend to skip straight through 4 pages and get the right information through the web. I am tired of propaganda, and that too in such a shameless manner for 34 straight days.
red star - unless you're blind, or really a red star, then you should be able to find more than enough counter arguments backed by plenty and plenty of facts.
this is a war where I believe everybody lost, obviously in various degrees; it's all relative. What's new, Israel didn't score the decisive win it always did, even though it had no shortage of weapons, ruthlessness, time, diplomatic support and men.
People killed in this war on both sides were not only Israeli Jews and Arabs and Lebanese; I don’t have a tally of nationalities, but I know from the news that in Lebanon there were also people killed from Canada, Sri Lanka, Jordan, Syria, Egypt, and of course Palestinians.
Bobo – yes they fought to a draw; a bit less than a loss for Hizbollah and a bit more less than a victory for Israel; something like that!
I agree, negotiations and peace take a lot of courage, and the first act in this process is to accept the other side’s leadership as legitimate partners and talk to them instead of isolating or assassinating them and then complain you have no partner for peace.
And btw, what cedar revolution? Are there any cedar tees left standing in Lebanon after the gazillion of missiles Israel dropped on it? And just how many cedar revolutionaries now can hold the same political line without looking like aliens?
TT, Tim has proven time and time again on this blog he’s pro-Israel-all-the-way and no argument, no facts, nothing can be said to make this guy stop raving his biased views. Just read a few of the arguments in recent posts prior to this to get what I’m saying, you’re only going to upset yourself by continuing. Don’t waste your time or energy.
I'd rather be anti-Israeli than anti-everything-but-Israel. And to me, this issue is that black and white.
I see something very conflicting in both of these statements.
"I see something very conflicting in both of these statements."
Perhaps you didn't see far enough to understand why I’d call myself ananti-Semite?
TT, Tim has proven time and time again on this blog he’s pro-Israel-all-the-way and no argument, no facts, nothing can be said to make this guy stop raving his biased views. Just read a few of the arguments in recent posts prior to this to get what I’m saying, you’re only going to upset yourself by continuing. Don’t waste your time or energy.
I'd rather be anti-Israeli than anti-everything-but-Israel. And to me, this issue is that black and white.
Pot calling the kettle black? ho ho ho!
Yes. I'm always raving my biased views here... ALWAYS. Even in my initial answer to Tim's question here... That was me, explaining that I'm all for Palestine. And I said it SO clearly; how did it skip my mind?
As a matter of fact, big rosh, you're bang on traget about everything that you have stated. However, one has the freedom to express ones opinion. This war could have been stopped right from day 1, if ony those who lead palestine believed in not getting their land pulverized. If not Day 1, then Day 7. To finally allow the UN to bring this cease-fire has only led this conflict to be decided with the same yardstick the world used to believe in, and probably will.
In order to get your point across, war is not an option. Then again if it has to come to war, atleast make sure you have the might to bring it on. If not the munitions, then at least strategies. Every one knows who's whos's puppet, yet it came as a very rude shock for it to be played out in real life.
Anon - thank you (btw it's blogrosh not big rosh : )
I agree with your comments, war is never a solution. I do not believe Muslims & Jews come from a different creator - you can mix the blood of the two and both will appear red - i.e. can't tell one from the other. The whole idea of war is primitive and insane.
I have always believed and continue to believe there is a lot of positive in the US and amongst Americans - however I am left in utter disbelief when most Americans support the recent wars and killing of thousands of innocents in Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine and Lebanon as fight for "Freedom". In case of Iraq - I supported ousting Saddam, he was a tyrant, who troubled all of ME regio, however there must have been a 100 ways to remove him - why this illegal war? why take thousands of innocent lives and feed such lies to your own gullible citizens? - look at the consequences!
Yet we have pure evil guided souls like OBL & cronies out there, free as birds, plotting another attack.
The land which have always given an opportunity for all who moved there and welcomed immigrants seem to have been hijacked by some to meet their own self-serving interests. The land which preaches every American is born equal, seem to imply thru it's very unbalanced actions (as evident, especially from the past three years) - that not every human being is born equal?
I am terribly concerned, that most Americans - led by their current president support Israel's war crimes against the people & land, which Israel continues to illegally occupy - as a war against "terror" and treat the inhabitants worse than animals. From my own experience, I have been to the church of nativity and have seen first hand, how IDF soldiers (and the Israeli tourist guide) treats/comment on the Palestinians - there is no way, any self respecting human being (even an animal) can continue to live the way Palestinians are forced to live in their own land!
Nobody wants to tie a bomb across their body and give up life! Imagine how much pain, we go thru if we cut or sprain ourselves or break a bone - now imagine the incredible amount of pain, a bomb can do to a human body being torn apart!
People like Tim, needs to THINK "WHY" would Palestinians put themselves thru this pain! To folks like Tim these defenseless, deprived, abused souls may seem "terrorists" however a little thought into the "WHY" will provide a more transparent insight.
With respect to Lebanon, Iraq and Afghanistan - it takes brawn to kill and destroy a country and it's inhabitants, however it takes a huge heart, mind and tremendous resolve to continue to live for peace and coexistence for the future of mankind. A bullet or a WMD to take lives, is never an option for peace.
I believe, if there is any country, which can spread peace - it is the United States. Inspite of historic & continued sale of WMD's, constant brain washing and "dumbing" down of America by the Media & it's government - there exists a huge heart & plenty of dissent within the average American Joe & Jane, inorder to bring peace and a smile to mankind. I can only pray the current self serving administration extends some support.
Tim, it is rather unfortunate, you see "selected" facts to back up your side of the story.
I have been following your responses via several blogs, and it is evident you are pro-israel, however please see the whole truth rather than what we get to see here in the United States.
I don't know how much online debating of political and historical matters you have taken part in, but as someone who does this for a hobby I can assure you that probably the worst opening line you can make is to tell your opponent that you have a monopoly on the truth.
I do not know if you are an American, British or someone from the West - however it is truly sad, that there are several like you, who continue to believe, given the above, Israel's existence and continued occupation and killing is justified.
Several like me?!! There are billions who continue to believe that Israel's existence is justified.
But that's by the by. Your sadness comes from the initial error you have made in addressing this issue, in that you believe you have a monopoly on the facts, and the conclusions you reach are the only ones achievable without sadness, confusion, or anger. Trouble is, even if for the sake of argument your version of the facts are indeed the true ones (they are not), the anaylsis of these can result in a whole range of conclusions. Historians rarely disagree strongly over facts, it is the interpretations over which they argue.
And having read an abundance of historical works, I have found that most noted historians do not express confusion, anger, or sadness in their conclusions. I believe this to be because they are satisfied with their conclusions having arrived at them by way of a rigorous analysis of the facts, and thus understand fully not only the what of the situation but the why. Somebody who considers himself to have researched a scenario properly will usually end up with a set of conclusions - sometimes a multiple choice - to explain what happened and why. But he should never, ever, end up in a state of complete confusion and anger as to why his conclusion is as it is.
I appreciate I have been rambling, but my point is this. In my analysis of the Middle East, I have reached a set of conclusions which do not leave me angry, confused, or saddened as I believe I fully understand the issues at hand. Yes, I fully support Israel in most of what it does, and I feel more than able to justify this to myself and anyone else. I am perfectly comfortable with my overall assessment of the situation. Moreover, I also completely understand why people arrive at the completely opposite conclusion as me. There are a number of reasons for this, but never do I stand confused, saddened, or angry as to why people feel differently about Israel as I do, because I have considered their point of view in my own analysis of the situation. This is important.
I do not agree with their conclusions, but I can generally see how they have arrived at them. Now I see this as being a far better basis for a debate than assuming that you hold a monopoly on the truth, and anyone who concludes differently is not fully informed of the facts as you see them.
you just need to add that god spoke to you and told the full truth about history to you son of god??! i never saw sombody so fullof himself and NEVER admit he missed fact or make wrong conclusion!!! also he never see anythng wrong with what isral dos. abundabnce of history books my ass...you wear glasses with star of david lenses, that is your histoy book.
Help, I'm having a bit of a problem with coins these days...they all seem to have only one side....
(I hardly need tell you it's the right side...)
@Anon
"I can see houses being bombed and destroyed, I can see cars and trucks being bombed, I can see the tanks rolling in, etc. But I see nothing of military installations destroyed or soldiers killed. Perhaps that's because it didn't happen, perhaps not."
The problem is no one has ever seen anything. Not in Lebanon, not in Palastine, Not in Iraq and not in Afgahnistan.
"Perhaps I'm missing something but aren't they claiming Hezbollah are those things, not Arabs and Muslims in general? There's a distinction to be made, surely? "
Really? The bombs don't seem to make any distinction.
"If it is true (notice the if) that Hezbollah fires these rockets from within normal civilian neighborhoods, it seems that is using their own flesh and blood as shields."
If..If...If...If Hizobolla, If Iraqi WMD...If If....and the death mounts. 250,000 for the latest gulf war, about 1,000,000 during the sanction years and thousands more everywhere...too high a price for Ifs...
"I think we'll drive a lot of people away"
They will come back if they ever come to thier senses, otherwise good riddence...
"the blog is getting increasingly close to getting blocked, I would think."
Earth to Anon...pickup any newspaper in the Emirates...you will find the articles much more honest and forward...
@Tim:
I think you should apologize to the families of the victims in Qana, Gaza, the West Bank, Madrid, New York, Hiroshema, Nagazaki, and the Holucust survivors...
Fro they know your line of thinking "Lets bake a few for the sake of science and lets toast a few for the sake of peace" is....well no need to go there...
Put your hitler youth manual down and come back to humanity...
"Really? The bombs don't seem to make any distinction."
Awful, man. But, hooray, our rockets do.
Oh, sorry. There are no rockets. (Forgot which side I was on.)
"Labelling somebody a Nazi for not agreeing with your views does wonders for a debate."
What Debate? Oh...I guess you can call your responses as an attempt..but we still have time..
Advocating the murder of our families does wonders for your soul...
You are a Nazi for advocating killing the civilians as away to pressure resistance movements into not defending thier lands and families....
The Nazi Party tried it in France..Moss tried it in Italy...Vietnam is another chapter in the short sighted and retarded strategy.
As you see some people are free and will fight to remain free...
We don't need no black clothed preachers advocating the usage of furneces for scientific experiments or the lives of our woman and children as negotiation items...
WOW! Hesham how could you cause all this mess man?! :-)
"They subtly accuse us of being cowards that use our flesh and blood as shields."
OK fine, let's say we realy are. So now that they have already demolished all those shields, have they found any of us behind?! Well until they do, I believe I'll stick to the other option left: "Cowards will always cower behind walls of steel and lies".
BTW, was it steel or cement?!
Hi Tim,
Please see my response to your comments below;
Tim's comment;
"I don't know how much online debating of political and historical matters you have taken part in, but as someone who does this for a hobby I can assure you that probably the worst opening line you can make is to tell your opponent that you have a monopoly on the truth"
Response;
Tim - not sure where I claimed a "monopoly of the truth? I believe my comment read - " please see the whole truth rather than what we get to see here in the United States."
For instance, a debate amongst the US Media starts with an attack on Israel by Arabs - as "Israel defending itself" . Hence, I said - ask yourself "why" do you think Israel is being attacked by the Arabs, especially since it was formed? I am aware Arabs & Jews have always had issues with each other, however did the Arabs commit the holocaust and kill Jews across in WW I & II? Hence ask the question - why now, why the past 60 years have Arabs gone ballistic over Israel?
This "why" is almost never debated transparently or thought of in it's entirety - instead and if there is a debate on the "why" - political folks scream at every lame opportunity "because Freedom is under attack" - oh come on?
Tim's comment;
Several like me?!! There are billions who continue to believe that Israel's existence is justified
Response;
I never said Israel should not exist - how did you arrive (again) at another ridiculous assumption? Perhaps you choose to read only "selected" portions of my comments - sort of the way you perhaps choose to read "selected" portions of facts/history?
I support Israel's existence, I always have - however, I do not, will not and cannot - support continued occupation and dehumanizing of Palestinians and Arabs by Israel in the name of "self defense". Read my comments again in it's entirety please.
Oh btw - once upon a time, "billions" believed the world was flat - we know how that turned out.
Tim's comment;
But that's by the by. Your sadness comes from the initial error you have made in addressing this issue, in that you believe you have a monopoly on the facts, and the conclusions you reach are the only ones achievable without sadness, confusion, or anger. Trouble is, even if for the sake of argument your version of the facts are indeed the true ones (they are not), the analysis of these can result in a whole range of conclusions. Historians rarely disagree strongly over facts, it is the interpretations over which they argue.
And having read an abundance of historical works, I have found that most noted historians do not express confusion, anger, or sadness in their conclusions. I believe this to be because they are satisfied with their conclusions having arrived at them by way of a rigorous analysis of the facts, and thus understand fully not only the what of the situation but the why. Somebody who considers himself to have researched a scenario properly will usually end up with a set of conclusions - sometimes a multiple choice - to explain what happened and why. But he should never, ever, end up in a state of complete confusion and anger as to why his conclusion is as it is>
Response;
Bearing, your psychosis of my "sadness" and "state of mind" - I believe I have addressed the first para of your comment.
In response to the latter half - I am not sure, what you are trying to say? Are you stating - yes Israel has the right to exist (which I agree with you) however as per the history books - it is entitled, and should continue the provocation and savagery against Arabs? Furthermore, am I to assume - given the "facts" within the "history" books, should similar logic be extended - to say, the United States & Canada - i.e. should Americans & Canadians perhaps give up their homes, livelihood and future - if someday the American & Canadian natives lay a claim to their land/homes - as per "history" books?
Tim's comment;
I appreciate I have been rambling, but my point is this. In my analysis of the Middle East, I have reached a set of conclusions which do not leave me angry, confused, or saddened as I believe I fully understand the issues at hand. Yes, I fully support Israel in most of what it does, and I feel more than able to justify this to myself and anyone else. I am perfectly comfortable with my overall assessment of the situation. Moreover, I also completely understand why people arrive at the completely opposite conclusion as me. There are a number of reasons for this, but never do I stand confused, saddened, or angry as to why people feel differently about Israel as I do, because I have considered their point of view in my own analysis of the situation. This is important>
Response;
We seem to have a some similarity in our respective thought processes, but separate logic & conclusions - for me it is black & white. Like you, I have reached a set of conclusions which do not leave me angry or confused, but am saddened - for the unfair and injustice imposed on human lives on both sides. However, unlike you, I do not fully support Israel in most of what it does, and I feel more than able to justify this to myself and anyone else, including you.
I believe everyone has an opinion, and in my comments, I have explicitly stated why I do not support Israel - all humans have to coexist, every man with self respect and love for freedom - will fight occupation. The Indians fought the Brits, Europe fought Nazis - hell, albeit, you shall fight Israel, if they based on "history" books laid a claim to your home as part of the "promised land".
As stated in my earlier comments -I believe all life is equal & valuable - I do not support killing of any human being, be a Jew or Muslim - however I strongly condemn illegally occupying someone else's homes, lives, livelihood, their future and freedom to create a "Jewish State".
I am not angry or confused, - but -Yes- I am terribly concerned and saddened, at the fact that most Americans - duped by their current president, most of congress & media continue to support Israel's war crimes against Arab people & claim to their land, which Israel continues to illegally occupy - as the war against "terror"? When the fact is Israel provokes & treat the true inhabitants of this very land worse than animals.
From instance, based on my own experience and visit to the church of nativity, I have seen first hand, how the IDF soldiers (and the Israeli tourist guide) treats and commented on the Palestinian refugees and the state of their camp - there is no way, any self respecting human being (even an animal) can continue to live the way Palestinians are forced to live in their own land.
Tim's comment;
I do not agree with their conclusions, but I can generally see how they have arrived at them. Now I see this as being a far better basis for a debate than assuming that you hold a monopoly on the truth, and anyone who concludes differently is not fully informed of the facts as you see them>
Response;
It's a given, we agree to disagree, however like I said, I have never claimed "monopoly on the truth'" - instead try and see things from the root causes, from both sides and from a broader perspective of the current Arab/Israeli conflict. However, I haven't heard anything from you, besides "selected" facts/truth, a comment which plainly reads "as per history books" and an analysis on my mental health.
Hence, I have no choice, but rather respectfully, disagree with your basis for support of Israel and it atrocities on Arabs.
"there are billions..."
hehehehehe! sounds like that astronomy guy!
"in my analysis....I fully understand.....I fully support Israel......I feel more than able to justify...I am perfectly comfortable....I also completely understand.....never do I stand confused...."
speak volumes...
Is it possible to construct a cogent argument without the personal attacks?
Just an observation...
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