I call the current punishment and prosecution law when it deals with such issues as "chewable" because everyone can interpret it on his own way. Article 361says: Anyone who violate public decency and anyone who seduce others for debauchery privately should be punished by either jail for no more than 6 months and a fine of no more than 5000 AED or both.
A legislation on its own should be initiated to define what is consistent and inconsistent with the UAE culture to give a clear message about what is accepted and what is not. Every resident and citizen of this country would be accountable to what they do. The government then should have the total responsiblity and authority to fine, arrest and deport anyone who violate this law.Women Get Jail and Deportation for Kissing on Dubai Public Beach
Dubai: Two women who were standing trial for kissing and cuddling on a public beach have been sentenced to one a month prison term followed by deportation.
The Public Prosecution charged the girls with kissing, groping each other and indecently gesturing in public.
Transvestites Caught in Public will be Arrested, Says Dubai Police Cheif
Lieutenant General Dahi Khalfan Tamim said transvestites have been seen of late in public places, including shopping malls. This does not adhere to UAE society's traditions and social values.
"Dubai Police have made up their mind to tackle this problem strictly. Any man who dresses up and behaves like a woman in public or vice versa will be legally questioned and legal action will be taken against him," Dahi said.
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45 comments:
I love Dahi, I wish he would choose his words more carefully at times and I wish those who translate his statements do it right, because, I've seen him miss quoted many times through wrong translation.
I want to make it clear right off the bat: I'm not complaining about either the girls being arrested for kissing, or the idea of transvestites being arrested. I don't like the idea of transvestites being arrested, but that is pretty clearly against the moral code of the country, and so it makes sense.
What I do have a problem with is this: who gets to define what a transvestite is?
Of the two articles I've read about this issue, the Gulfnews article focuses on men who wear 'women's clothes and makeup', but they don't really touch on women. The National's article is a little more disturbing, talking about men with long hair, women with short hair, and women with 'boyish attitudes'.
I'm sorry, but I know lots of men with exceptionally long hair and women with exceptionally short hair. Neither of which would fit into the generalization of a "third gender". Most of the girls I know generally dress in jeans and a t-shirt. Should they be worried?
That's my problem with these so-called 'morality' laws. One man's morality isn't necessarily another's, nor is it always representative of the country's.
Also, I'd be careful if I was Lt. General Tamim. All the studies I've read indicate that it is in fact the segregation of the sexes that can lead to this kind of behavior, not the other way round.
The appropriate moral is the one defined by the CID when they arrest you and the TRA when they block you. period.
They are also the one who will decide whether you're carpooling without a license or just transporting your unregistered friends.
It's weird to see a country bidding on tourism and trying to drive everyone away at the same time. Good luck with that.
I'll second rami on the fact that I know a lot of people who may look like they've crossed the fence to some hardcore mullah even though they did not. Some of them are local even.. ;)
Mr. Tamim does not seem to understand how research within science fields work.
First, there are few studies that find any relation between mixing boys and girls and cross dressers.
Second, correlation does not mean causation.
Third, citing your studies as 'Some studies conducted in the West indicate' does not give credibility to your statement or to the studies.
Fourth, I honestly dont believe Mr. Tamim even has access to journal repositories. You cant use the newspaper articles as sources, because they only report some of the outcomes.
New signs at entrances to one of the malls in Dubai include a warning not to "Wear inappropriate clothing to the mall" with a sketch of a woman in a mini skirt and tank top and not to "Display indecent affection in public" with a sketch of a couple hugging.
Stealth edit on a comment, it was there now its gone.
Rami, you should stop being a drama queen because me and you know exactly that females wearing jeans and t-shirt is not a problem. Neither straight males who have long hair. There are many local, who are usually bedouins have long hair because it is part of their culture. The police as part of the Emirati community, are fully aware of who a transvestite is in the UAE standard so defining who a transvestite is wouldn't be a problem. The only one who will find themselves in trouble are the ones who see themselves as transvestite.
Those studies about segregation are bullshit and biased because the authors themselves and the communities they are living in are usually against segregation. I had my share of conducting research and I can easily say that information and statistics can be manipulated easily to go according to what those researchers want.
So what sort of research have you conducted PE?
How do they manipulate the data?
And how does being against segregation affect the data?
Proud Emirati, and the 'research' that will be conducted here will be unbiased, even though they are clearly pro-segregation? You can't have it both ways buddy.
I ask you again. How do you define a transvestite? If we're only talking about men in dresses, then fine, not that I've ever seen someone be that blatant here. When it comes to makeup, the line gets a little more blurry. I'm not talking about lipstick or such, but I've seen men who dye their hair, for example. Hell, I've even known local men to wear kohl on their eyes. Is that ok?
Also, sorry dude. You have no right to accuse someone of being a drama queen after the style of your post, with the big glaring font. You might as well be standing on a rooftop and yelling.
Theres a difference between a transvestite and cross dressing.
You can be a cross dresser and not want to be a transvestite, its just an expression of personality.
You cant be a transvestite and not cross dress. Being a transvestite falls under a completely separate class.
^^ what a bullshit
Yes, I am standing on a rooftop and yelling :D
Since when was men putting kohl in the UAE a sign of acting like females or being transvestite. God, u don't even know what ur talking about and that is why u are a drama queen :P
Btw, I didn't suggest that research that would be conducted here would be unbiased. I am only saying that referring to those studies as a source is invalid.
Again, please explain how being pro or anti segregation will affect the results.
The aim of studies that get sent to peer reviewed journals are to establish causation regardless of the authors ideas. I dont see how being pro or anti segregation will affect outcomes because variables within a study are controlled for. Any study that get sent in is thoroughly examined by the scientific community.
So again, please explain how stances on segregation will after the outcomes.
I guess Sir Elton won't be able to wear his wonderful birthday ballgown on his next appearance in the UAE... or bring Mr Furnish with him.
Amelie Mauresmo won't be able to bring her partner to the Dubai tennis, and Scary Spice Mel B had best stay well clear too.
It's a mixed-up, muddled-up, shook-up world - except for Lola.
Anonymous @15:48, data can be manipulated by using unreliable scales, the choice of variables, factors and elements, false correlation, a sample that doesn't represent the community, making up the results and many other factors
PE: Again with the name-calling. I guess I'll have to spell it out for you really carefully, then maybe something will sink in.
Reread what I said last. Did I make any judgement against local men wearing kohl? Of course not. I know perfectly well that it's a cultural thing.
However, even in the West, it is considered 'strange' for a man to wear makeup of any sort. That's the sort of subjectivity that comes up when you talk about defining something like 'cross-dressing'.
And oh, when you claim that any study that supports a prevailing attitude is invalid.. wow.
So according to you, the only way this study could be valid would be if it's conducted here, and then finds that co-education is not related to this phenomenon.
^^ oh dear ....
To paraphrase: "I can't define what a transvestite is, but I'll know it when I see it!"
This action is a slippery slope and will end up hurting Dubai's public image.
All they'd need to do is head down to Al Diyafah on the weekend and they'd clean up!
Most of the guys wearing full make up (the odd few in abayas too) are locals though...
"transvestite" i had to use my heaviest dictionary to look it up.
I wonder what was the word used in the original Arabic speech though :)
Btw, how would the 'vice versa' work? it's almost impossible to tell when women behave like men whether they are doing it out of sexual orientation or mere habit.
proud emirati: I've edited the formatting of your post (content has been left); please adhere to standard formatting and do not change fonts etc as there can be cross-browser complications when doing so (for instance, this is what your post looks like on my feedreader)
Thank you samuraisam, I was having a problem with the font and didn't know how to change it.
Hey buddy,
Before going around demanding that normal people get served with a jail sentence, how about you get your police to clean up the streets from streetwalkers and hookers.
That would be a good start. Then, you can go around telling people about some cultural values. Quite frankly, this is really starting to piss me off and I bet many of the expats here are equally finding this hypocritical to burj dubai scale.
HaHa!
Not a great time to give your three Scottish hippy mates a lift to the annual kilt contest, really, is it?
alexander,
Who's got Scottish mates anyway?
I've got one who probably bats for the other side. Kilt-wearing, an' all. Beat that.
Yep Dubai Entrepreneur, I do believe that we should stop being hypocrites and start cleaning the mess.
To place Khol in the eyes started with a amedical reason that the natural khol removes infections hence the reasons that you see so many babies with it in their eyes, this is a natural thing and has been happening for years, however in Deira City Centre of Friday was a Kuwati National in National dress with mascara, lipstick and blusher - I think that is what they are refering to rather than the natural Khol.
proud emirati,
Can I vote for you as head of Dubai Police then? I don't mind the things I don't agree with.. true that I would rather have girls with mini-skirts free to be in the mall as much as the full niqab cover.. but I am more than happy to accept and live with a more conservative Dubai, if only it's not half done and prostitutes no longer roam free around neighborhoods.
Move them to industrial areas like they do in the States :)
"I demand an awareness campaigns"
You demand? Gonna stamp your foot & say damn if you don't get your own way P.E?
To open any form of dialogue, you don't demand, unless you are a dictator.
(I'm sure the Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice could slot you into a nice position somewhere in the depths of The Magic Kingdom)
I would suggest you choose your words a tad more carefully, on the assumption you would like expats to take you more seriously.
I always thought that Islam taught - nay, demanded - courtesy from its devotees. I guess I was wrong as this person clearly does not understand the meaning of courtesy. "Demand" is a dictatorial phrase used by bigots and small-minded people.
Clearly there are two option here - either he is not a true muslim, or we have been lied to about the religion.
Robert Mugabe and Adolf Hitler demanded, All other great world leaders like Nelson Mandela and Mahatma Ghandi "asked".
If we can "demand" in the UAE, then as an expat I "demand" that Emiratis learn to drive, stop tinting their windows beyond the legal norm, stop killing expats with their vehicles and show some respect for our culture.
This person is like the immigrants in the UK "demanding" that their culture be accepted in a foreign country.
This post also helps me to understand why the Gulf states were the last to abolish slavery in the 1960's about 100 years after everyone else.
A half-wit of note!
Hehe, so u got all my life profile by me saying I demand? Guess what, English is not my first language so I don't know what impression the word demand have comparing to the word ask.
Thank you for making fools of urselves :)
pe
My first language is English, however I make the effort to speak Arabic and when I do I also make the effort to ensure that I do not make crass mistakes like you did.
Whose the fool now?
^^ Still you
pe
It is pointless trying to debate with you.
You patently have a closed mind and have a limited education.
I would suggest that you speak to your educated Emirati friends to see where you are going wrong.
I have several Emirati friends who, thankfully are not as biggoted as you
Good luck
Conversation over
"....one must ask what social problems exist to have contributed to their uprise.."
i* - yes, indeed something to think about. Am sure people see more, many more "trannies" in DXB -hotels and resorts, especially the past few years. It wasn't so 8-10 yrs ago, or I believe.
Here's something: someone at work, who is openly gay, had friends (from the UK) also openly gay, who planned on visiting DXB. I told him and his friends, sort of point blank, UAE society & laws do not tolerate gays/lesbians in general. His friends still made the trip - they loved the place. Makes me think, what is going on there?
what if PE was demanding his own government? would that still be rude?
on the assumption you would like expats to take you more seriously...
That is assuming that an "expat" ) aka, a mercenary (look it up,) here because he cant make nearly as much anywhere else, and still likes to bitch, known anywhere sensible as a "foreigner" or "resident alien" has any right to even take part in dialogue or debate.
No, you dont, that is left to a country's CITIZEN. something I was sure I knew on a daily basis while in the states.
God why havent I been back here in so long? I've been ill. No, no, dont pray, send me hate mail.
P.E. What did I miss?
I want the people who make the real choices (ministers, generals, directors... my dad!) to take me seriously, luckily for me, none of them seem to be foreigners. so you can shut it, and continue to collect your over sized paycheck, or you can simply leave.
Or I can run you off the road with my 440 horse power tinted car and get away with it as you blog about how the UAE is an unjust place.
WAH WAH WAH!
"Expat" take me seriously? you take the cake for the "who is full of himself award this 1/2 hour." Usually its Samurai Sam, but hey, the torch can be passed.
And something tells me anyone speaking (or attempting to) the Arabic language make far grater mistakes that P.E made.
Also, Conversation is Over? you win the "things arent going my way so I'm going to be a pompous child (an interesting combo) and through a tantrum award."
And just for the record, Im part German, I LOVE Hitler.
If you arent from here, you can bitch, blog, debate... not be taken seriously till pigs fly, and your opinions DO NOT MATTER.
Something resident aliens who have been here for at least a few years already understand, so why bother? why hate? lets all join hands and sing!
Did I leave anything out?
a blessing in tragedy,
and for the record too.. I lived in the US and I was an 'alien'.. but I also had absolute freedom to say whatever I wanted. In fact, when in college I used to write in the campus daily with harsh and strong criticism of American ignorance of the world at large. You know what? I was treated with respect for raising awareness of such an issue.
This is very unlike the UAE where you block whoever tells you what you don't want to hear, as a country (censorship is sanctioned and supported by your public).
So, how dare you compare the two? Some of us mercenaries (hey, I like the term, I'm here for the money, no doubt). I am also inadvertently investing in your economy through my business (and those of many many many expats). You've gotta be a 6 year old not to understand that the relationship here permits me to far more than just talk. I matter far more than you think.
The opinion of an expat in your country is perhaps more important than that of your own citizens. Look around Dubai and you can see that your government is only acting on that. PE often complains about the beaches and whatnot. This country may be ruled by Emiratis, but it most certainly is not for them.
The minute you decide that this 'arrangement' is not good enough for you or for the expats, WE will leave and you can deal with your economy however you like.
I'm just telling it like it is.
The only excuse for this is either that you are young and ignorant (and probably were not raised too well -- trouble at home?), or that you are a racist whom I would spit on.
Now, did I miss anything?
Oh now who's being a close minded preachy kid? And I made it a point NOT to call anyone any names. and now you want to spit on me because I admire a great historical figure. nice. Is this allowed? because if it is I have some not so decent words of my own for you.
Ah, but I, unlike you, have something called respect, and class. your fat paycheck can try to buy that, try. only try. and you just proved.
I admire Hitler. I really do. misguided, maybe (debatable) but truly a genius. when you can get those many people to follow you based on nothing more than blatant lies, then we'll talk.
The guy sold ice to the eskimos with a smile on his face and they liked it, how could I not admire that?
So a bunch of people died, Over 100,000 people died of natural disasters in the last 2 weeks or so aloe, and your "western" buddies have caused as much grief as Hitler since.
You have been programmed to see evil. brainwashed into seeing it. I see it for what it is. He's have made one hell of a CEO for Microsoft.
Oh dont make me laugh, I was beaten, ridiculed, laughed at, and judged for my name in the US. not to mention had my house searched 6 times by the FBI.
And the funniest thing is I WAS BORN THERE.
So dont preach to me about how you lived there for 6 years and were welcomed. you must have had the right name to have your opinions matter there, the right look, or the right ideas.
But this is MY country, not yours. you are an alien, and you are here because this government, MINE, allows you to, to make money. simple. Here I have the right name, look, and opinion.
Mine is that women shoudnt even be allowed out in public without skirts down to their knees and long sleeves, men should have their hair cut.
I'll agree that (looking around) my father's generation were all too willing to sell this country's sould to the devil in order to import knowhow and BMWs.
I have my own knowhow, in part thanks to aliens. I cant deny that. Thank you. but you have been compensated, WELL. you dont DESERVE anything more nor to you have any CLAIMS here.
I also dont need a BMW. They are uncomfortable cars and I prefer comfort to fancy shmancy (it's a word) crap.
And thats what the new generation is waiting for. the older one to "retire" so that we can finally have things as we want them. and if that "infringes" on your "rights" as an alien... be somewhere else. if you can handle and accept that you are in someone else' house, welcome.
Hum... Instead of bitching about this (once again, all your bitching is meaningless) why not blog about how (for example) I cant understand a word coming out of the server's mouth at South of the Border in DFC even though I speak 4 languages? or how that really annoying woman on Dubai One's Out and About needs to take pronunciation classes because I cant understand a word she's saying?
Or better yet, deal with your own life, family, friends, loved ones... and bring me a parata sandwich with eggs and cheese... Im so hungry and I'd be really grateful!
Oh, and no, you're telling it how you see it. Only God can tell it how it is. so unless you're going to sit here and tell me that you are the all mighty himself. you just proved your own ignorance AND a bit or arrogance there buddy.
a blessing in tragedy,
The problem you have is that you fail to see criticism as a desire to make things better. All the expats bring a collective of cultures and value systems. We all pitch in our ideas and how we think things should be. Instead of taking it defensively like you do, it is better to actually listen, you might learn something.
And no, I did not have the right name. Nor do I have the right 'look' or skin color. No sir. I have everything not going for me. But, I had the right attitude.
I didn't like the US's way of doing things (like FBI searches you refer to), and felt unwelcome, so I left. If I feel that attitudes of Emiratis are going to echo yours, I would certainly be heading for the door as we speak.
So, when I get pissed off that your head of police, who is responsible for MY SAFETY, is more concerned about those wearing clothings that he doesn't approve, or sport some make-up when they're men, instead of dealing with bitches turning tricks in front of kids coming back from school.. right there in the street.. EVERY DAY.. and I call the police and they don't care.. repeatedly..
excuse me, but that, that is something worth bitching about. And if you can't see the problem with arguing with that, then quite frankly, not I or anyone else can help you.
^^ Seriously though, most of what I've seen in this blog goes to the destructive criticism category.
PE
Which the sum total of what you achieved with your bigotted post!
PE
Which the sum total of what you achieved with your bigotted post!
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