11 May, 2008

Life changes at fast pace...

"Muslim men wishing to end their marriages may be ordered in future to use the legal system because of growing concern about the abuse by some husbands of the right to oral divorce, a leading Islamic cleric has warned."
/"Oral divorce could give way to courts" /

34 comments:

Veiled Muslimah said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Keefieboy said...

And your point is?

Veiled Muslimah said...

Good article. I agree. I've heard too many cases of where Women are divorced in anger and then taken back again after their period of iddah is over, as it was all a big joke. A lot of people, forget that marriage is a sacred institution and shouldn't be played around with. Divorce should be the last resort, if all other things fail.

The Prophet sallalahu alayhi wasallam said: "Among lawful things, divorce is most hated by Allah." (Reported by Abu Dawud)

But I'm slightly skeptical about how this would work. For example, say if the courts implement this law, would it go over the general rulings of Shariah? [I.E- The law of divorcing three times verbally] Or would the ijma of the scholars make it binding and hold more weight?

OR I'm assuming the general law would still stay in place but the who procedure of separating and other aspects would require going to court.
Hmmm.

Editor said...

In my opinion, the verbal divorce leaves children and women in a grey area of uncertainty, let alone unstable provisions.
If the divorce is valid only when certified by the courts, the wife can immediately demand custody and alimony in order to maintain the life standard of the children.

Zafar said...

There are different schools of thoughts, if you take example from Shia'a community in their community one can not divorce unless in the presence of witnesses and again it should be in a proper way that is to divorce once wait for 3 months (not certain of this time limit) and if still wants to divorce then give divorce the 2nd time and wait again and finally give the divorce 3rd time which is final and you can not take back the wife.

Other school of thought is even if you give divorce in anger (normally you will divorce only in anger, one would never divorce when in love) and say divorce three times its full and final and you have given the divorce completely now you can not take back your wife.

Men take advantage of women in both cases, women should know their rights and be educated enough to fight for their rights, additionally men should be educated too to consider their wives as human beings even when they divorce them.

This is a complecated issue and laws can not save women from the misdeeds of men if both are not educated. It is education which will save women and then society.

Keefieboy said...

Personally I hate the idea of divorce: in a Christian marriage you promise to stick with the marriage 'for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, 'til death us do part.' I don't know what promises are made in an Islamic marriage, but for me, a promise is a promise, not to be broken without deep thought and serious reasons.

Formalising the process through courts sounds like a great idea to me.

Veiled Muslimah said...

Keefieboy:

I understand, but I feel that, that is a very idealistic view. There are situations where staying married would do greater harm then good. For example, cases where abuse or violence takes place or there are same major problems. I don't think staying married then is the best option.

But of course, we all are entitled to our opinion[s].

Keefieboy said...

Veiled Muslimah, you are right, of course. I would not encourage anyone to stay married under those circumstances! What I was getting at is that there are always ups and downs, and, short of physical or mental violence, you should stick with it.

unjane said...

This is one of the areas that defies understanding for me as a westerner. It's often said Islam guarantees equal rights for women but the divorce law stands in direct contradiction to that. My limited knowledge is that it is much simpler for a man to divorce his wife than vice-versa and that in most cases, should a woman choose, through much effort, to divorce her husband, she is faced with the loss of her children. This often leads her to stay in a less than satisfying relationship. Do please let me know if I am mistaken on any of these points.

Lirun said...

what if they were to make the right mutual..

unjane said...

@ Lirun
It would be interesting, to say the least. The divorce rate might soar but I still think custody is a big factor in a woman's decision to stay in a bad marriage.

Anonymous said...

Unjane, in Islam divorce is equally challenged with men and women, society however dictates alot of how we behave. These days in court, it is required to get counseling and they try to make it work...if all else fails divorce is graunted.
Women don't loose the custody of kids uless she gets married. Which really is a good thing. There are studies that show step fathers tend to abuse their step children much more than step mothers, and more so with no comparison when it comes to sexual abuse.
Once married, the children can live with her family if the father is ok with that.
If she doesn't remarry, the children stay with her until they reach puberty and get to decide.

Anonymous said...

The divorce in Islam is not easy for women at all, it is on the contrary - the most stressful, humiliating and costly experience.....especially for foreign women..
The counselling provided by the courts applies only if the parties accept and follow the appointments. Unfortunately, more often the husbands don't accept the court's invitations and don't show up at all. If they don't show up two times, the court is sending the file to the Court of First Instance and this doesn't mean that the divorce will be automatically granted.
On the contrary: it's only the beginning of the ordeals.
Some times such cases continue for 2 - 3 years under very unfavorable conditions for the women and children. The alimony during the case may be as much as 1000 dh monthly....imagine how few people can survive on that.
After the judgement from the First Instance Court is pronounced, there is a grace period of 30 days to appeal.
After the Appeal Court the case still could be taken to the Court of Cassation (in Dubai) or the Federal Court (for the rest of the Emirates). Dubai has independent jurisdiction.....
After that the case goes to the Execution Court, but this doesn't mean that this is the end. Many husbands are not paying alimony willingly and the judges are often issuing court orders to the banks to freeze their account, to the Murur to confiscate their cars and to the CID to catch them.

Every 10 months the woman can file new case for higher amount of alimony.
The boys remain with the mothers until age of 9 + 2, girls up to 11 + 2.
Usually the alimony is a minor amount and is seldom enough to cover the needs according middle class life standards.
At last, local children are not allowed to travel out of the country without their fathers written permission. Foreign mothers are often prisoners of their own children

Anonymous said...

I was talking about Islam/ muslims and divorce, not UAE and divorce.
The laws here does not automatically reflects Islamic Shariaa.
So your case might be different.
The long court cases, I can't explain, but can tell you its not an "Islamic" law. And the reason they don't allow foreign moms to travel with thieir kids without the fathers written permission is that to foreign women is the many cases were moms take their kids abroad and dissappear, so in many ways it makes sense.

Anonymous said...

Why wouldn't they disappear????? Women and children must live happy and comfortable lives, but not be harassed, abused and neglected for years or even for life from abusive polygamous husbands who don't have dignity at least to pay the child support.
And for your information, I know a woman who is rounding the UAE courts since 2001 trying to get rid of one such ******* who won't pay his child's alimony without arrest order.
What are you going on about Islamic Sharia.........????

Anonymous said...

still don't mix Islam and your/your friends individual cases, I happen to be a non local divorced here in the UAE courts, a big headache but not for a minute did I associate it with my religion. The court rooms here doesn't work with the Shariaa law. Why don't you read a reliable book about divroce in Islam.

Unless the father has physically or sexually abused the kids, mom has no right to take them away to a place and never let the father hear about them, it is simply not her right.
Sorry your/your friends divorce has been a bad one, sorry the court made it drag, but again, this has nothing to do with Islam, it has everything to do with the court system here, which has proved on several occasions to be contraversial and not right.

My response by the way was to unjane who can't understand this part of "Islam".

Anonymous said...

With all my respect, but ........the legal system is Sharia and even the family courts are are called Sharia Courts.

And when woman wins a child custody battle, she can take her child to live any where in the UAE.
Fathers usually get 5 to 6 hours weekend visitation rights and if they have criminal history could be only 3 under police supervision at the local police station. Often many don't bother to see their children even.

Women can also remarry and keep custody if the ex-husband fails to object it legally in a period of one year.

Reemas said...

First the take of community in general should be taken into consideration before changing the rules.

Reemas,
PrivateMarriage.com

Proud Emirati said...

unjane, Miss I know everything.

FYI, the custody goes automatically to the mother if divorce occurred unless it was proved that the mother cannot raise her children. Most of them prefer to stay married because they are selfless and would live miserable life with their husbands instead of raising children with no father.

Why do people quote some stories and generalize about the whole system? God knows what were the implications there.

Editor said...

Here I have few articles on the same topic:
http://www.dubaicrime.com/search/label/Alimony

Editor said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Lirun said...

unjane..

its sad that a woman has to be held captive to a bad relationship just to be near her children.. i think this is unfair..

dxbiangirl said...

Lirun,
"Captive?" LOL! "Sad"... Why? You don't have to be. It is her choice to stay or leave AFTERALL If she was granted a divorce she gets the custody of her kids.

Anonymous said...

Thanks DxBgirl.
Many women choose to do that, and Lirun should know better being Jewish and all, it happens with orthodox jewish women alot.

It is a sad decision, but it is a decision.

Everything's fine, the sun is shining said...

Having read the discussions above, it is clear that there is a difference between divorce as it is prescribed in Islamic scripture, and what people (especially women) actually have to go through in an "Islamic" country in a divorce situation, whether or not it goes via the courts.

The reaction to that seems to be:

"I was talking about Islam/ muslims and divorce, not UAE and divorce.
The laws here does not automatically reflects Islamic Shariaa." (Quoted from a previous post, above.)

At the end of the day, the practical reality that a divorced woman faces seemes to be very different from the "ideal" situation, which tends to stay within the pages it is written in.

Lirun said...

dont see the relevance of the jewish issue..

maybe someone can clarify: do women tend to get custody or not.. im confused by the messages on this thread..

Editor said...

Yes, women usually get custody, unless proven unfit to bring up the children. The custody for boys is usually up to 9 years of age and can be extended up to 11. The custody for the girls is usually up to 11 years of age and can be extended up to 13 years.

Editor said...

The above is valid for Muslim women only. Christian and other religions can keep the children up to 5 years only.

Proud Emirati said...

ِActually the custody for males is 11 years and can be extended to puberty and 13 years for females and can be extended to when they get married. That doesn't mean that the custody goes automatically to the father after that though.

The custody for non-muslim female married to Emirati male go automatically to the father unless the judge found that it is better for the kids to be with their mother. In this case the custody goes up to 5 years only.

Proud Emirati said...

Lirun, I don't see any relevance either; however; I think that u need to read carefully before jumping to conclusions.

Editor said...

PE,
with all respect, but you are wrong.
"ِActually the custody for males is 11 years and can be extended to puberty and 13 years for females and can be extended to when they get married."
No, the custody for males is 9 years and can be extended 2 years only and 11 years for female and can be extended to 13 years.

As for the part "That doesn't mean that the custody goes automatically to the father after that though.": yes it doesn't mean, but the chances are quite strong, in particularly in Dubai.

Abu Dhabi Sharia Court is known as more human and many local wives from the northern Emirates are even filing cases there for that reason.

Proud Emirati said...

^^ nope, u are wrong.

Editor said...

I wish...

Lirun said...

PE - didnt jump to any conclusions..

here to learn..

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