"Playing loud music, dancing, nudity, kissing and even holding hands in public is considered inappropriate behavior under new guidelines laid down by the authorities of Dubai, according to a press report on Saturday.
Dubai Executive Council issued a list of public behaviors that requires Dubai residents and visitors to respect the customs of the Muslim country and avoid what the council considers inappropriate behavior, according to the Arabic-language daily Al Emarat Al-Youm.
The rules, which apply to all public places, include a ban on all forms of nudity, playing music loudly and dancing, exchange of kisses between men and women—and even on unmarried couples holding hands.
Any breach of the guidelines, by nationals or expatriates, carries a possible prison penalty, the paper wrote.
The order also requires all visitors of public places, such as government buildings, shopping malls, streets and restaurants to dress in “appropriate” clothing, otherwise they would be denied entrance to those areas.
“Pants and skirts have to be of appropriate length, and outside clothing should not expose body parts indecently and should not be transparent,” the guidelines stipulate under section “public behavior,” Al Emarat Al-Youm wrote.
more here:http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2009/03/14/68405.html
Thanks to anonymous for link.
Posts
144 comments:
bohoooo
What's to bohooo? Perhaps healthy to include this in DXB tourist brocuhers issued wordlwide.
how do they define public places?
Indecency lies in eyes of the beholder!!!!!!!!!!
Just vague enough to catch out a lot of people ~ like so many other laws and regulations here. The Banana Republicans strike yet again.
How do they define kissing? The peck on both cheeks is somewhat traditional. Can married couples hold hands? Can two blokes or two women hold hands? What is an appropriate length for clothing?
As always seems to be the case with UAE laws, so much is left unsaid.
I'm not at all surprised with this new rule.
Maybe, it was one of the pre-conditions that Abu-Dhabi laid out before agreeing to financially bail out Dubai.
Maybe this move could save Dubai's soul or what's left of it. Or maybe not.
Time alone will tell!
Ehh why not . . . a couple new straws never hurt a camel anyway.
I'm looking forward to coming back to Dubai . . . sorry . . . 'New Abu Dhabi' in a couple years once things have settled down from the transition of power & creating an amazing metropolis is a priority again.
Anonymous said...
Indecency lies in eyes of the beholder!!!!!!!!!!
And in this case the beholder is the government. Not you, not me.
FINALLY. Proud Emarati had hinted about this yesterday. I wonder where he works.
Finally I dont have to walk thru skanks are us in my own country to get a bottle of water from a cafe.
Lirun, It is not defined as you would think. A public place in the UAE is any place that YOU yourself do not own.
For example, a mall is NOT owned by you personally, therefore it falls in the public domain.
Thats why a law such as this one can be carried out even in a mall or restaurant.
In the US (as I recall) it's different. A Mall is private property, and the owners (a company) set the rules they want in accordance to state/county/city laws.
"For example, a mall is NOT owned by you personally, therefore it falls in the public domain."
MAF isn't a public listed company, is it? Since MAF own & manage DCC & MOE, wouldn't these malls fall rather 'private'? Or have I completely missed something..?
A public place is generally an indoor or outdoor area, whether privately or publicly owned, to which the public have access by right or by invitation, expressed or implied, whether by payment of money or not, but not a place when used exclusively by one or more individuals for a private gathering or other personal purpose. The following is an example of a state law defining public places for smoking laws:
"Public place" means any enclosed indoor area used by the general public or serving as a place of work containing two hundred fifty or more square feet of floor space, including, but not limited to, all restaurants with a seating capacity greater than fifty, all retail stores, lobbies and malls, offices, including waiting rooms, and other commercial establishments; public conveyances with departures, travel, and destination entirely within this state; educational facilities; hospitals, clinics, nursing homes, and other health care and medical facilities; and auditoriums, elevators, theaters, libraries, art museums, concert halls, indoor arenas, and meeting rooms. "Public place" does not include a retail store at which fifty percent or more of the sales result from the sale of tobacco or tobacco products, the portion of a retail store where tobacco or tobacco products are sold, a private, enclosed office occupied exclusively by smokers even though the office may be visited by nonsmokers, a room used primarily as the residence of students or other persons at an educational facility, a sleeping room in a motel or hotel, or each resident's room in a health care facility. The person in custody or control of the facility shall provide a sufficient number of rooms in which smoking is not permitted to accommodate all persons who desire such rooms.
ABIT, a friend told me about it few days and that it has been circulated in governmental departments but I admit that I didn't believe that Dubai would go this far.
so there are some sources denying this news
nooooooooooo :P
playing loud music - does that mean no more concerts?
dancing - errr, who would break into a dance in public? so no more bollywood productions in dubai then?
nudity - thank goodness.
kissing - define kissing? like someone said before, does that mean no air kissing on the cheeks that many socialities do? or the cheek touching custom many of us, locals and expats, do in greeting? what about the nose touching amongst gcc men?
holding hands in public - does that mean parents can't hold their tot's hands across the road? or brothers holding their younger sisters (or vice versa) cos they're not married? or even relatives in charge of their younger ones? or someone holding a blind person because they're not married?
appropriate clothing - this has already been implemented much before in malls and i believe most other public places, but what is appropriate for a beach, or even an indoor pool? and what about the fashion of layering - the top bit is transparent, with a matching slip/vest inside?
are they actually going to be implemented and policed? because despite the previous thing i mentioned about decency in malls, i still see skanky people. oh, and let's not forget the 'sexy' clothes on display stores.
@PE:
do you know the sources? I would appreciate it if you could post links of those :)
^^ I have the document already
enjoy
http://www.wikiupload.com/download_page.php?id=106341
rosh said...
"For example, a mall is NOT owned by you personally, therefore it falls in the public domain."
MAF isn't a public listed company, is it? Since MAF own & manage DCC & MOE, wouldn't these malls fall rather 'private'? Or have I completely missed something..?
As PE pointed out. If it is a place that people can congregate, it is thus public domain in the UAE, regardless of who owns it.
Case in point, if I invite 50 people to my house, my house becomes a public place till those 50 people leave.
playing loud music - does that mean no more concerts?
Oh God I hope so! I'll be so sad to see the wannabe posers at the desert rock thing gone! *cries*
dancing - errr, who would break into a dance in public? so no more bollywood productions in dubai then?
I see this on a weekly basis at Emirates mall.
kissing - define kissing? like someone said before, does that mean no air kissing on the cheeks that many socialities do? or the cheek touching custom many of us, locals and expats, do in greeting? what about the nose touching amongst gcc men?
God, I really do think you are probably one of the most dense people ever. WHAT DO YOU THINK? Being technical is going to get you in trouble and fined. When in doubt dont do it. Pretty simple.
are they actually going to be implemented and policed?
Oh I know I'm going to run with this. call the security guards wherever I am to get rid of violators! Muahahaha!
WHY NOW???????!!!!!!!!!
That honestly looks like a fake document and the fact that no printed newspapers here have printed a single story about it makes it even more questionable.
Might as well just be another rumour like Sheik Mo being shot by his son, or being dead, or on life support etc, etc,. Bogus until publicly and officially announced.
احسن
احسن
احسن
Good :)
"anyone caught under the influence of alcohol—even a small amount—outside designated drinking areas is liable to being fined or imprisoned"
Does that mean that boozers will have to sleep in their favorite bars and clubs until they sober up or is there a provision for people "going home" after a binge? :)
ABIT, yea we can do patrols together, lolol !
so is a hotel a public place? is a gym a public place? is a night club a public place?
there was a funny case in israel of a religious guy complaining that over passover the law prohibiting yeast sale in a public place was broken by a food chain.. the courts held the store wasnt a public place so the religous guy went to the store and stripped down to his birthday suit leaving only a sock on his "blue" bit..
he was arrested for public nudity and when he was brought before the courts he cited the court ruling that the same store wasnt a public place..
this really happened.. haha
ABIT and PE doing patrols together? Oh NO!!
OK folks, look out for a pair off spotty teenagers on wheels with grubby handprints on the front of their dishdashas and that will be them.
Proud Emirati said...
ABIT, yea we can do patrols together, lolol !
Muahahahahaha! As long as I get lunch out of our patrol dates!
http://www.thenational.ae/article/20090315/NATIONAL/451812436/1010
It's in another newspaper as well.
I printed this law and use it for toilet paper now.
I dont think so anonymous 13:46
This is an official letter if u know Arabic
http://uaesm.maktoob.com/up/uploads/91d83ec080.jpg
that is the best news this year. Let all people who can't live with it, go back to where they came from or never come here in the first place. that would be even better.
Oh Okay! if kissing is out then rubbing noses should be fine ?
awesome ! gangs of "volunteers" running around malls enforcing morality, while we're at it lets sentence 90 year old grandma's to 40 slashings for allowing male neighbours in their homes...
it would definitely help to include this in tourist brochures but I dont expect anything that helpful or transparent from the authorities
this reminds me of the time an expat friend went shopping for a persian rug in one of the souk's, the salesman at one point lays down a small silk rug with a bunch of writing on the floor right in his path, and just as he's about to walk over the man horrified stops him "NO NO NO THAT IS HOLY WRITING?!??!" Turned out its the 100 holy names of Allah, if it's holy then why throw it on the floor in his walking path ? Why not tell him what it is and warn him not to step on it ? But this is pretty much what Dubai is, bait and switch, vague implied rules, and all the time make it sound like it's absolutely no different here than any other tourist destination.
If you're gonna make rules then for f's sake be a man and stick by them, and more importantly tell the whole world exactly what you expect of them when they visit. NOTHING should be implied or left to "common sense" when punishment is involved.
And inviting people to my home makes it public ? Wow your stupidity never ceases to amaze me...a "bit" indeed. Wait wait I know,
"...dont you know who my father is, what family I'm from ?!?! dont you know how I got this cushy job ?!?!? boohoo leave leave dont like it leave booohoooo *sniff* :( "
Personally I'm more offended (creeped out rather) by men holding hands or walking side by side with one's arm around the other. And the nose touching thing ? Nevermind, it's their country!
Lirun, A gym and hotel are public places. The hotel room you pay for isnt.
Rose in Dubai said...
ABIT and PE doing patrols together? Oh NO!!
OK folks, look out for a pair off spotty teenagers on wheels with grubby handprints on the front of their dishdashas and that will be them.
Teenagers? I'll be 27 in May! (God Im so old, sigh)
Better volunteers than the mutawas in the KSA that are PAID to do this. No?
I would so like that job!
And the nose touching thing ? Nevermind, it's their country!
Exactly. you make it sound like I shouldnt be able to do what I do in my own country.
I dont come to where you are from and bitch do I?
I never asked you to stay. you may leave. I hear Dubai has a large airport for just that.
Dubai has done a Saudi...
Today in our university, I saw a nice couple grabbing each others back side. Now should they go to jail for this? Don't think so.
Anonymous 19:25
Rubbing noses is part of our customs, kissing in public isn't so STFU !
Anonymous 21:09
It doesn't matter what offends you. Guys holding hands is accepted here.
PE: and you don't think it's a bit peculiar?
I lived in Dubai for thirteen years, never knowing if it was okay for me to hold hands with my wife or not. Now it seems it is. This whole thing is beyond weird. I am so glad I managed to leave.
When I lived in Dubai, I was always eager to learn about local traditions, but found it really hard to do.
What r u referring to exactly Keefieboy
PE: it seems to be okay for two guys to hold hands, rub noses, kiss each other on the cheek. But similar behaviour between a man and his wife is not okay?
Not really because rubbing nose and kissing on the cheek is the Emirati way of greeting friends. Holding hands might look little extreme I admit and I wouldn't do that with a friend but some consider it okay.
There is also no problem kissing ur wife cheek (at least in my view) as long as u don't look like ur going to swallow her. The problem is lies with those acts that tend to look sexual. So a display of affection even if it was kissing is not accepted.
PE, thanks. Nevertheless, I was always uncomfortable doing these things (holding hands, displaying affection) when I lived in Dubai. For the life of me, I cannot understand why this perfectly normal activity is frowned upon, even possibly illegal. This is what normal people do in the rest of the world. Why is it considered to be bad in the UAE?
Weird, again.
It is a normal thing to do in our bedroom not in front people and others have the same view in most Islamic countries. Even India which is the 2nd biggest populated country in the world and a non Islamic country those acts are considered inappropriate.
Emiratis see those normal activities as u call them as something indecent and lack taste when people do it in public. So let us accept our differences and let each country decide its own rules.
Meh. I left your country, mainly because of this attitude. It seems to me that Islam seeks to deprive its followers of all that is great in life - wine, women and song: art, literature and a full life that is not dominated by worshipping a vengeful God five times a day.
I may be wrong. I'm sure you'll correct me if I am. When you do, please list how many great works of art, literature, poetry, scientific inventions have ever emerged from the UAE, or even the Arabian Peninsula.
You'll hate me for saying this, but I think Islam ('submission') stifles all creativity and invention. Just as strict adherence to Christianity or (take a deep breath) Judaism does.
The fact is, in the modern world, religion has no worthwhile place. It worked a few centuries ago, providing spiritual and lifestyle guidance. Now it doesn't.
Count to twenty, and think about it.
People are born naked. Are you going to jail those babies?
^^ yea I thought about it and I don't see the relevance to babies being born naked. Babies cannot think logically but grown up do, babies don't have sexual desires but grown up do. So what is with this odd comparison?
Islam unlike Christianity and Judaism is a pragmatic religion it accept change but without violating its principles. It set borders for our lives. Women are pleasure in the appropriate channels which is getting married. The ban of songs is debatable between scholars and wine is something u can live without.
For example in Islam having sex with ur wife and pleasuring her is a way of worshiping God because in this way u are refining from committing adultery. Islam also encourage education and urge people to think critically even about the religion itself.
It isn't fair to point out the lack of inventions and innovations in a region that have had one of the harshest environment in the world where people spent most of their time surviving. So even according to Maslow's hierarchy of needs you cannot climb the hierarchy unless u satisfy the level u are in. So how do u expect those people to move to the self-esteem needs when they are in the psychological needs level. Now we have a very young society that will need time to mature and develop.
The idea of life in Islam is that people are brought to worship God by doing what he desire and refining from what he doesn't so this is our duty in this world. I don't think u would understand if as an atheist I presume?
Anyway, am not here to preach Islam. If you want to know more read an ignorant book or something.
well said PE. i thought ur response to Keefie's 01:52 comment was going to be a nasty one . . . but u showed great restraint and dignity . . .
. . . and I guess all u hv been asking all this while is for some restraint / respect from the 'visitors / expats' . . .
this is cradle of civilisation.. nothing young about this society.. whatsmore.. invention doesnt require inventive motivation.. you dont need to self actualise in order to invent.. it is enough to be creative.. this is where the words adaptation and improvisation kick in..
Without a Dubai version of the matawan, who is going to police/enforce these new regulations? I want to be ringside the first time a security guard orders a muscely blonde woman wearing leopard skin hotpants and a small halter top out of Bur Juman and tells her to come back when she's "decently dressed".
I'd just like someone to explain to me why hand holding in public seems to be an evil, insidious action punishable by warnings, fines, or even jail, but anyone who has been on Mankhool Road in Bur Dubai after 12 AM knows that "ladies of the night" are lined up outside for men (Emirati and foreign alike) to appraise them like horses in public and often with police cars parked nearby, and yet THIS is permitted, or at least, not expressly denounced and certainly not actively enforced in any way.
Really, could someone honestly tell me that they'd be more offended to see a couple walking around holding hands, than to have easy women lined up soliciting people through all hours of the night, creating traffic jams and lots of noise in addition to the reprehensible trade they are engaged in?
Rules are rules, but the hypocrisy absolutely kills me.
Keefieboy,
Strict adherence to any religion often results in the interpretation that prohibiting what is good to be good. All that feels good must be evil. It often reminds me of the movie Chocolat.
I think it is unfair to call out Islam on this. Islam is no different from the rest (and I know you mentioned that, but I think you are singling out Islam with this).
I do agree with you that the Arabian Peninsula hardly produced any science (none that comes to mind). However, you would have to admit that the spread of Islamic culture did produce art, culture and science from the regions outside of the Peninsula.
Hassan Al Turabi, the troubled Islamist political leader, often said that at the origin of anything that is great is often left the most backward with the most innovative being at the peripheral. This is direct reference to Islam originating from the Arabian Peninsula and yet being the most pathetic in the Islamic civilization's history.
And yes, while I think that Dubai had to bow down to Abu Dhabi's demands of instilling some conservatism in the big whore house that is Dubai, I find it rather odd that these people are unable to find a common ground. You either have hookers running around every street corner or ban holding hands. I think Dubai has bigger problems to tackle than run around looking for couples with public displays of affection.
A culture that finds holding hands sexual does scare me. Then again, my own country would find it okay to dictate such laws.
So, Keefieboy, you can run off to Spain and enjoy a good bottle of wine. Where do people like me go? Dubai was about as good as it gets and now they're trying to choke the very life out of it.
It is these very laws and restrictions which lead to a higher level of homosexuality amongst Gulf Arabs then the rest of the world.
From a young age they are seperated from females and made to attend every function with males. Thus growing up their natural inclinations for sexual curiosity have only one outlet: homosexuality.
Although very well hidden and guarded, everyone knows the stories that come out once in a while of little philipino or pakistani boys being gang raped by their emirati compatriots.
You can deny it as much as you want but it exists, and it makes sense that it would exist. You can not stifle nature with draconian laws.
What an ugly culture you have. No place for love? No place for laughter? music? dancing?
It sickens me.
Anonymous said...
Today in our university, I saw a nice couple grabbing each others back side. Now should they go to jail for this? Don't think so.
Yes, yes they should.
keefie: actually, Islam ('submission') does not stifle() all creativity and invention.
you know algebra? developed by
muslim mathematicians.
for a list of astronomers and astrophysicists, see here. and then scroll down for a complete list of muslim scientists. read up on the astronomers here.
a quick preview:
Ibn Sina - father of medicine
Omar al-Khayyam - mathematician, astronomer, philosopher, physician and poet
Abu Hamid al-Ghazali - philosopher, theologian
Ibn Rushd - notable contributions in philosophy, logic, medicine, music and jurisprudence
Jalal al-Din Rumi - philosopher, poet, mystic
Ibn Khaldun - identified psychological, economic, environmental and social facts contributing to the advancement of human civilizations
Al Biruni - historian, mathematician, physicist and much more.
there are Farabi and Kindi, the best known muslim philosophers among many.
so no, islam does NOT suggest blind faith and the shoving of intellectual thought out of the back door.
too bad the muslims got too distracted by the "how many angels can fit atop a needle" to continue with their breakthrough works. and that now when you say "ibn batuta" you are referring to a shopping mall.
Hemlock. I've added the dates of birth to your list:
Ibn Sina - father of medicine 980
Omar al-Khayyam - mathematician, astronomer, philosopher, physician and poet 1048
Abu Hamid al-Ghazali - philosopher, theologian 1058
Ibn Rushd - notable contributions in philosophy, logic, medicine, music and jurisprudence 1126
Jalal al-Din Rumi - philosopher, poet, mystic 1207
Ibn Khaldun - identified psychological, economic, environmental and social facts contributing to the advancement of human civilizations 1332
Al Biruni - historian, mathematician, physicist and much more. 973
All a long time ago. What happened since then, I wonder?
Anonymous 09:55, actually this has already happens in mall of the Emirates. Now it will go from individual initiatives to a policy adopted by the government.
a question of a question, he commented in a respectful manner so he deserve a respectful answer. Most of other posters are rude and like to troll so trolling back is the best treatment they should get.
Lirun, I don't know what cradle of civilization is in a country that had an illiteracy rate of over 80% two generations back and only got its independence over 30 years ago. Don't mix the accumulated past of a whole religion with current local realities.
Anonymous 10:09 so why don't you die already?
Anonymous 10:12 seriously, anyone who think that Abu Dhabi has a hand in this is an idiot. Those rules only emphasized on what Emiratis think appropriate so it isn't really different than before. Emiratis were complaining about those stuff since ever so those policies came to correct what was wrong!
Proud Emirati,
Emirati's have been wanting a more conservative Dubai for a long time, so why now? Before you call me an idiot for suspecting that Abu Dhabi has a hand in anything that appears to be aligned with Abu Dhabi's vision of the UAE, think about it.
While it is common knowledge that these 'laws' aren't new, it is the affirmation of their very existence that is interesting.
I don't really care. I don't find men kissing on the cheeks (not really kissing the actual cheek now) offensive. I do it with friends. Big deal. Neither do I find holding hands one bit offensive. I do find Pakistani men holding hands a bit 'curious', but I can't say that it offends me. I just think it's one of those funny (to me) cultural differences. Big deal.
I like to hug and kiss my wife a lot. I do it all the time, when we're alone or outside. Obviously I tone things down a lot, but I like to get a quick kiss every now and then. It's what makes our 9 years together so beautiful. We never stopped hugging and kissing. I'm not making out with her in public and I find that a law that makes me have to THINK before pecking my wife on the cheek rather disturbing.
Culture or not, it is sad that the Emirati culture is the way it is. It is sad that the Muslim culture in general is that way (with a few exceptions here and there). I can't say that my own country's culture is any different in its disapproval of PDA's. So, I'm not going to sit here and point the finger.
All I'm saying is, it would have been nice if the Emirati's were able to find something in the middle. Let people hold hands, who cares? Just for the love of everything that is sacred to you, clean up your streets from the prostitutes parading up and down. Clean up your hotels that are nothing but brothels.
You know, deal with the real issues instead of making the lives of ordinary law-abiding residents like me hell.
Yes, I know it's your country and you can do what you please. I came here because I thought of it as a refuge from the craziness in my own country. If this turns into the same thing, I really would not know where to go!
keefie: i saw those dates. your argument was islam / religion stiffles creativity and innovation.
my counter argument said they do not. and i gave you proof.
muslims scholars developed the foundations of math, science and philosophy as we know it today.
so when you say "All a long time ago. What happened since then, I wonder?"
i take it that you conceed that islam does not stiffle acedemic thought.
as for what happened since then, that's another debate.
Anonymous 15:27
This IS a real issue and one of the fundamentals that made many Emiratis like me lose hope about Dubai. It WAS the main thing other Emirati was complaining about in the past years. Now all I can say is that kudos to Dubai but only if they applied this policy properly and that I would support them even after the humiliation we had from them in the past 5-8 years.
I certainly would feel disturbed knowing that Dubai host people who feel like hell because they cannot kiss their wife in public. I don't think we need such personalities here.
You want something in the middle? Fine, but we are certainly leaning toward the left to ur side. We are not asking ur wife to cover her hair are we? You have a relative flexibility in what you wear. We don't ban alcohol when we should. You have a reasonable amount of freedom in what u believe. You are not forced to learn Arabic even though this is an Arabic country. We ARE tolerant otherwise u wouldn't see Dubai the way it is. Do you really want it in the middle?
and again, no Abu Dhabi has no hand on this. The general director of the community development authority said last that they will implement something like that on the beginning of this year. Don't u think that such policy would take a long time to come the way it is? It takes months or even years. Abu Dhabi citizens have always been less religious (more culturist) than Dubai and there are many indicators that Abu Dhabi want to take a secular approach unlike Dubai where money is its main driver.
I should add that this was also part of Dubai Strategic Plan 2008-2015
http://egov.dubai.ae/opt/CMSContent/Active/CORP/en/Documents/DSPE.pdf
Hemlock @ 14:05 said :
"for a list of astronomers and astrophysicists, see here. and then scroll down for a complete list of muslim scientists. read up on the astronomers here.
a quick preview:
Ibn Sina - father of medicine
Omar al-Khayyam - mathematician, astronomer, philosopher, physician and poet
Abu Hamid al-Ghazali - philosopher, theologian
Ibn Rushd - notable contributions in philosophy, logic, medicine, music and jurisprudence
Jalal al-Din Rumi - philosopher, poet, mystic
Ibn Khaldun - identified psychological, economic, environmental and social facts contributing to the advancement of human civilizations
Al Biruni - historian, mathematician, physicist and much more."
I'd like to add the following:
Ibn Sina - Persian
Omar Khayyam - Persian
Abu Hamid Ghazali - Persian
Rumi - Persian
Biruni - Persian
Stop taking credit for all Persian things like most Arabs try to do. Islam was forced on the Persians, just like it was forced on everyone else and is being forced on us to this very day.
The Persian Empire was more advanced intellectually, and socially then Arabs will ever be, as we can see today with Saudi Arabian culture, Yemeni Culture, UAE Culture (these rules) etc.
Even with the stifling yoke of Islam, Persia continued to try and develop and greatly influenced Arab/Muslim science, culture, architecture, philosophy etc....
For thousands of years the Persian Empire held of the Roman's Eastward expansion, and at it's weakest was conqured by backward nomads from the Arabian Peninsula,
oh woe that day and all the harm it has brought to the world...
A beautiful culture stiffled with the Abaya of Islam.
yea, long live Persia. Now go back to Iran !
Where do you think all your precious leaders are from? Should they go back to Iran as well?
By the way, nice educated rebuttal.
Keefieboy said...
Hemlock. I've added the dates of birth to your list:
Ibn Sina - father of medicine 980
Omar al-Khayyam - mathematician, astronomer, philosopher, physician and poet 1048
Abu Hamid al-Ghazali - philosopher, theologian 1058
Ibn Rushd - notable contributions in philosophy, logic, medicine, music and jurisprudence 1126
Jalal al-Din Rumi - philosopher, poet, mystic 1207
Ibn Khaldun - identified psychological, economic, environmental and social facts contributing to the advancement of human civilizations 1332
Al Biruni - historian, mathematician, physicist and much more. 973
All a long time ago. What happened since then, I wonder?
The west happened. Crusades, more of them, then more BS with the ottomans, then more issues, then WWI, then WWII, and to this day, we have the west in our business.
So if you want to know why a flourishing bunch suddenly stopped, you need only look into the mirror.
Not just here, it was the west who killed off the american indians, that took africa and their civilizations, who tool australia and theirs...
Dont come pointing fingers when the west have the bloodiest and have been the main reason NO one but them has been able to even breath in 500 or more years.
anon: For thousands of years the Persian Empire held of the Roman's Eastward expansion, and at it's weakest was conqured by backward nomads from the Arabian Peninsula,
soooooooooooooo... what yer saying is, there's a great civilization that keeps the romans at bay, but then sees a decline and men on camels take over it by swords... and then in a soap opera twist it goes back up again (under new management they were secretly resisting) to produce great MUSLIM thinkers and academics. (oh wait, this is where you would tell me these people couldn't renounce islam or they'd be burnt at the stake too)
okkkkaaaay. i cant argue with that logic.
i'm just glad you seem neither intolerant, nor unreceptive to new ideas. probably makes you a great person to work for.
I am really amazed with the intellect here.
In a nutshell: origin, theology, history, calculus, physics and what not have you.
So the new law of ethics, modesty & decency stems from all of the above?
You cannot make fool of urself more can u anony 16:44
Yah yah yah dubai iz free again yah yah yah
To Hemlock:
No, that's not what I'm saying. If you knew your history I wouldn't have to say it at all, but I'll try and sum it up for you.
After thousands of years of conflict, both the Persian Empire, and the Byzantine's (East Roman Empire) were weakened and unable to resist the onslaught of the Arab Hoardes. Iran's subjugation to Islam did not happen overnight, it took hundred's of years, and to this day there are proud Iranians who refuse to give in to this backward religion.
Their religion has nothing to do with their science and philosophy. They were Iranians, continuing a long tradition of enlightened thinking (see first charter of human rights, the freeing of the Jews from Babylon etc)
They were always more liberal, not having any problems with drinking, poetry, love etc.....
What have Arabs done for society? Aside from inventing honor killings, suicide bombings, vaginal mutilation, burqas, draconian laws about holding hands in public and the destruction of beautiful cultures like the Persians, the Afghans, the Indians, the North African's etc...etc...etc..
Look at every Muslim country right now. Not one is prospering and doing well on the world trade. The only reason there is some semblance of normality is due to oil wealth. Otherwise they'd all be a mirror image of Somalia and or Afghanistan.
I am a nationalist, and it's religion that impedes our struggle against Western Hegemony. Wake up and shed this burden. Realize that we make our own destiny.
I'm tired of being the laughing stock of the rest of the world. You should be too.
Yea u make ur destiny so stop living in the past. The Persian Empire was screwed by illiterate Arabs 1,000 years ago. It will never revive.
the world has begun to notice
http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-news/dubai-bans-nudity-dancing-and-holding-hands-20090317-90cp.html
Ay Caramba! 72 comments?!
"pants and skirts are to be of an appropriate length" and "clothing cannot be tight or transparent" with visible body parts."
Duh?
Lirun, the 'new' guidelines or laws aren't new, they've been in place for years, even decades, I believe - perhaps not as strictly enforced. Seriously, be civil and decent, that's not asking for much, hell that's not asking for anything. Throw some clothes on folks, and if you've got quite an itch for a kiss, a quick 'mature' peck on the lips/cheeks shouldn't land you, or sugar lips in prison, I think.
kyle: origin, theology, history, calculus, physics and what not have you. So the new law of ethics, modesty & decency stems from all of the above?
heh. one can never tell when yer being sarcastic =D
but umm, no, i would say the new law of ethics, modesty and decency stems from a disconnect from all of the above.
if i was at home brushing up farabi, i wouldnt have to be arrested on the road for blasting music in my car :D
Why is it so ridiculous that Abu Dhabi might be behind this? Back in the late 80's, Saudi Arabia bailed out the Sharjah banking system to the tune of about $500 million. Ever since, SA has leaned on Sharjah to be more conservative. It stands to reason that AD would do the same when bailing out Dubai's real estate slump.
i wouldnt have to be arrested on the road for blasting music in my car :D
Hemlock:
Blasting music can & will be construed as violation of peace & tranquility in New Dubai's Phantom Law of Acceptable Behavior. You better watch it Babe' or your automobil (deliberately mis-spelt) risks an unwanted vacation time in the wagen yard ;)
Hemlock said @ 10:27
"for the record?
honor killings - unislamic
suicide bombings - unislamic
vaginal mutilation - f***, this is so TOTALLY unislamic"
...perhaps technically all these things are un-islamic as you say, however, they exist in almost all Islamic countries. Is that just a coincidence?
I don't care about theory, I care about how something manifests itself when put into action.
Either the religion that Arabs spread around the world is violent and repressive or their culture is.
Which is it?
You have to understand my friend that I want peace and harmony and kinship between all people's of the world.
I guess my main contention here is with all Religions. There is nothing divine about hatred.
Religion is just a political tool, used to guide those that are blind and unwilling to educate themselves.
Many times I have come across "religious" people, who condemn me for my open mindedness and willingness to debate (calling me kafer or what not), and yet when questioned, they know nothing of their religions and "believe" in what they have been told blindly.
How can you live your lives by laws that were made up thousands of years ago, for socities much, much more backwards and uneducated then we are supposedly meant to be.?
Wether it be Islam, Judaism, Christianity or any other man made concept which is attributed to a "divine power" we see the same pattern of hate, war, condemnation, and division appear.
Can God (if you believe in him) truly frown on holding hands? on showing love? on dancing and feeling joy?
If you do not see the absurdity of this then you are truly lost and I pity you. You have one life on this earth, live and enjoy the present. Be good to your fellow man, and if there is a higher being, let him/her judge the offenders.
As for Proud Emirati:
If I had a dirham for everytime you told somebody to go home, I'd probably have a dollar by now.
Counter people's arguments instead of resorting to childish name calling.
doesnt anyone see the burqa wearing teacher in the UK as relevant to this post?
would you like to be required to dress in a way that made you unhappy?
have someone tell you how to dress? does that not feel like the state is usurping your personal life?
i feel lucky to be a man in a world were women can be so easily bossed around..
in the west they are given bodily measurements they have to meet to the inch.. and in the east they are asked to drape themselves..
truly a lesser gender..
Displays of affection among couples - whether married or not - in public places does not fit the local customs and culture. Holding hands for a married couple is tolerated but kissing and petting are considered an offense to public decenccy.
Public displays of affection, as well as sexual harrassment or randomly addressing women in public places is liable to be punished by imprisonment or deportation.
There are people from all over the world who came here, because this place is more conservative than elsewhere.
They don't need drugs to feel good about themselves. They don't need alcohol to feel happy or drown their worries. They don't need to sleep around and have sex in public. They don't need to eat porc to feel healthy. They don't feel annoyed by the call to prayer. They don't have to show their naked body parts in order to feel fashionable.
The UAE are a very safe place to live and you can't argue with that. And the fact that it is safe, is one of the results of having rules in place. If "everything goes", then don't complain if you are not safer than on the streets of Sao Paolo.
You are free to do pretty much what you want to do - in your own home. Then do that there! If you go out, have some respect for the religion and culture and for yourself!
I just heard someone laugh!
Should I call the cops?!
I don't think it's right, there could've been some Emirati's walking by. These damn Westerners!
Drinking in a bar is halal.
Holding your girlfriends hand in public is haram.
Lame!
anon 11:48: How can you live your lives by laws that were made up thousands of years ago, for societies much, much more backwards and uneducated then we are supposedly meant to be?
because we, civilised as we want to believe we are, are still struggling against our 'basic instincts', and if taken out of the structured environment that religion provides, would be consumed with lust, envy, avrice, gluttony, wrath, sloth and pride...
oh but wait, even within the confines of religion people cannot seem to keep their instincts at bay. imagine what would happen if they were allowed to run loose (with no fear of retribution).
laws made up "thousands of years ago" are still as valid today as they were then, because we as human beings, may have come a long way in IT, but deep down inside are made up of the same material we were then.
unless you think in 2009 it's ok to covet thy neighbour's wife.
Can God (if you believe in him) truly frown on on showing love?
why on EARTH would god do that?! do you know what Quran says about marriage, and loving, respecting your partner and what not?
god WOULD (at least the god i believe in), in my humble opinion, frown upon 'showing lust' - swallowing your partner whole - in public, ONLY because of the complications it can lead to in the society at large.
i cannot speak for the UAE govt and their decision to ban holding hands :)
Many times I have come across "religious" people, who condemn me for my open mindedness and willingness to debate (calling me kafer or what not)
LOL @ the irony. do you know the significance of hemlock?
nuff said =)
kyle: beach road has been littered with cops as of this week and it SUCKS.
SUCKS! SUCKS! SUCKS... TOTALLY!
did i mention it sucks? =(
the hemlock is an unhappy animal.
Hemlock,
Struggling against your basic instincts? What a load of crap.
Are you telling me that you are so weak the sight of a women would drive you to run wild in public and try to penetrate everything that moves? Control yourself man.
The root of your argument is flawed. Being a religious person, you must believe in a God, doing so, you believe that God created man in his image, and yet you are against man's very nature?
Logic would lead one to believe that your God is himself flawed, for creating such a crature.
THERE IS NO GOD. JUST A RELIGIOUS-POLITICAL SYSTEM CREATED TO INFLUENCE AND RULE IGNORANT PEOPLE LIKE YOURSELF.
No one is telling you to go around having sex with everything that moves. What we are telling you to do is use your brain and own will power and do the right thing.
Perhaps you need a "higher being" to tell you the difference between right or wrong. I on the other hand can work it out myself.
If you truly believe in God, and as a previous poster said that this life doesn't count, and is just a test for the after life then let me pose some questions:
Why do you participate in society? Own a car? buy a phone? watch tv?
If I believed in your God and his laws, I would go out into the desert, become a hermit, not posses any worldly goods, and spend my lifetime worshiping him.
(and thus end up wasting this beautiful gift of life that nature has given me)
We will never see eye to eye. You are blinded by years of indoctrination and religious teachings, none based on fact. You were probably punished for questioning any of the teachings and made to believe blindly. I truly do feel for you.
Anonymous 02:37
Those things are allowed for ur sake and if it was up to me I'd have closed them long time ago.
Proud Emirati - 10:21
Why don't you move to Taliban controlled Afghanistan? According to your comments you would enjoy life much more over there.
>>Those things are allowed for ur sake and if it was up to me I'd have closed them long time ago.<<
Why? I understand that YOUR religion prohibits them for YOU. But why would you want to prevent other people who don't share your prohibition from enjoying them? Can't you just accept that different people have different beliefs without having to impose yours on them all the time?
anon 10:18: Are you telling me that you are so weak the sight of a women would drive you to run wild in public and try to penetrate everything that moves?
EWWW!!! ok, lets set the record straight for once.
im a NOT A DUDE! im a chick, as straight as they come. the sight of woman does nothing for me, thank you very much.
(though i am much curious. WHAT do i say that makes me sound like a guy? wtf :/)
as for screwing everything that moves.
*sigh*
ok buddyboy, here's how it goes:
"A United Nations report showed more than 250,000 cases of rape or attempted rape (a)re recorded by police annually. The reported data covered 65 countries"
this is data for 65 countries, for reported rapes. how many go unreported, or are reported in countries not included is a whole diff ballgame.
so yes, there is something in the human nature that seems hard to keep under leash - whether you admit it or not.
Perhaps you need a "higher being" to tell you the difference between right or wrong. I on the other hand can work it out myself.
right. and you clearly think it's ok to call people 'ignorant' when their beliefs differ from you.
i wonder who the bigot is.
If I believed in your God and his laws, I would go out into the desert, become a hermit, not posses any worldly goods, and spend my lifetime worshiping him.
wallahi, if that is the case, you know NOTHING about islam, or its teachings =) you dont know about the importance of community living, rights of your family, friends, neighbours over you... etc etc...
like ABIT said in one of his ealier comments, it takes a lifetime to understand and know islam, so im not going to condense it for you in this comment box.
one thing is for sure. hatred stems from fear, and we fear what we do not know or understand.
You are blinded by years of indoctrination and religious teachings, none based on fact... I truly do feel for you.
awe, how sweet. but never mind me =) why dont you go rebuild the persian civilization? ;)
Anonymous 11:44, but Taliban controlled Afghanistan is not my country, the UAE is :D
Why don't u check around and see what the average Emirati think rather than living here while being ignorant about almost everything about Emiratis. I mean get a life, u don't obviously don't know anything or else u wouldn't have said such comment.
Rose in Dubai, if I remember correctly when the UK top bishop said that applying sharia law to Muslims is unavoidable Ive heard Brits crying on how the law should be consistent and that Muslims should be governed under the UK law only.
So I listened to what they were saying. Why is it that when it comes to the UAE it should be different? It doesn't matter if banning alcohol is derived from religion or just a preference. Everyone should be governed under the same law regardless their religion, period.
I also remember an Iraqi refugee who had two wives and was refused the citizenship because of that and was asked to either divorce one of them or go back to Iran. Isn't this imposing ur beliefs on others?
So all what I can say is that each country govern according to what is suitable to them. I don't go to ur country to lecture you about how filthy alcohol or how indecent peoples clothes are so I should expect the same here. So please stop lecturing us imposing beliefs when u are the ones who practice that all the time.
Hemlock @ 15:19,
My apologies for mistaking your gender.
AS for your rape argument - I guess there's no rape in "Islamic Countries"?
You of all people should know that it is exactly in these Islamic societies that rapes of both females and males go unreported and in some cases the victim is seen as the culprit.
I call people Ignorant who still believe in fantastical mythical things made up eons ago and lead their lives by it. It's plausible that Millenia from now, someone will find Lord of the Rings by J.R.R Tolkien and create a religion based on it, which would be no less valid than any of the world religions are now.
If it takes a lifetime to understand it, then I'm assuming no one truly understands it do they? Hence all the non-sensical rulings that your governments and mufti's and mullah's come up with.
I will say it again, religion (if you choose to believe in it) should be between you and your god. DO NOT FORCE YOUR VIEWS AND LIFE CHOICES ON OTHERS.
..and as for all this talk about respecting culture, should we then respect the culture of Canabilistic tribes in the Pacifi Rim who eat each other? After all it is their culture right? and I assume you see nothing wrong with the Taliban's vision of Islam do you? Since that's their conclusion after "a life time of understanding".
....and if you're gonna reply to my comments, don't pick and choose, I want your opinion as to why God would create something "unclean, and unperfect" after his own image?
oooops! another u-turn???
Conflicting reports
" We are not authorized to give any interview now and do not have any comment on this issue "
Nasser al-Hamali, Dubai Executive CouncilNasser al-Hamali, the council spokesperson, refused to comment on the report.
"We are not authorized to give any interview now and do not have any comment on this issue. We don't care what is published in newspapers," he told AlArabiya.net. "Let the press and the people talk."
But an official government source familiar with the matter who requested anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the matter denied that such guidelines had been issued and said that if the report were true other newspapers would have received a copy of it.
Do the new regulations apply to this?
http://i.gizmodo.com/5171822/the-worlds-largest-luxury-yacht-sails-out-ofyou-guessed-itdubai
..and as for all this talk about respecting culture, should we then respect the culture of Canabilistic tribes in the Pacifi Rim who eat each other? After all it is their culture right? and I assume you see nothing wrong with the Taliban's vision of Islam do you? Since that's their conclusion after "a life time of understanding".
....and if you're gonna reply to my comments, don't pick and choose, I want your opinion as to why God would create something "unclean, and unperfect" after his own image?
Yes, if that is their culture, and the government there is actually based on their culture. Then yes, the Taliban, and the canibals are right.
I dont like it, SO I DONT GO THERE. Simple.
This isnt YOUR home. Its mine. Leave or OBEY my rules. If you dont, we have told you what the punishments are.
Oh, and the In God's own image thing isnt part of Islam. Not man, nor any other beings were created in God's image.
Learn who you re talking about before you speak.
You can bitch about this from now till you're blue in the face. you only have 2 options. STFU and do as the rules say, or do the opposite and face punishments.
Have fun using logic to choose which you like.
but what happened to the tawrat
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tawrat
in the tora it says man was created by god in his image.. u dont agree with moses' book?
No we are drifting into linguistics and to answer your question correctly Lirun you would first have to know the real meaning of the word in the language in which this quote was revealed. There is no image of God anyway - not in Judaism and not in Islam. Because God is unlike anything. Maybe we share some aspects with God - such as hearing, seeing etc. and God knows best.
But PE, the law in the UAE DOES allow alcohol. Are you saying that you are smarter and know better than your leaders? Or perhaps morally superior?
The UAE law recognises that consumption of alcohol is a personal choice. Yes, some religions forbid it and therefore followers of that religion should choose to abstain, but if you don't follow a religion that prohibits it you have a right to make a personal choice.
Your personal belief is that alcohol is "filthy". But that's just your personal belief, and while you are entitled to have that belief, just don't impose it on me. I agree that alcohol abuse is an ugly thing, but plenty of people enjoy a glass of wine or a gin and tonic, or whatever without having to be come uncontrollably drunk and obnoxious.
Oman always had these rules, and people who came to work and lived there respected these rules.
I know for a fact that they discouraged people in short shorts and tanktops walking down Ruwi highstreet.
So what? Did it stop people from coming into Oman?
The expats there, are a whole lot LESS whingy and moany, they respect their host country and you dont get a lot of beach banging .
The problem with giving someone freedom is that you cant give them measured amounts.
You either do or you dont. You cant say okay you can drink but only in a pub/at home, you cant say okay you can eat pork but only at home. It would have been simpler not to make it available to start with.
But one lives and one learns and one seeks to learn from ones mistakes.
I have always wondered at the whole weirdness of the situation of
internet blocking and beeping out of abusive language,then endless vulgarity available on arabic channels, and so many things that make me uncomfortable. But maybe in a world that seems to be regressing a few guideline may actually help.
(climbs of soapbox)
Good news folks, a positive news story on Dubai from Guardian UK, the newspaper best known for Germaine Greer's bus tour!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/mar/17/credit-crunch-dubai?showallcomments=true&commentpage=1&commentposted=1
hallodubai
No we are drifting into linguistics and to answer your question correctly Lirun you would first have to know the real meaning of the word in the language in which this quote was revealed
ah.. hebrew is my native tongue if thats what you are referring to..
the word in hebrew is dmut and tzelem.. both allude very strongly to image.. but i must say while i personally use the argument you put forward very often - the point here remains the same - there is a strong degree of reproduction or immitation.. the questions that follow are these:
(a) is the copy poor?
(b) is the original not modest (ie imperfect)?
i think this is logical reasoning..
once you exhaust these questions without providing adequate answers all that is left is to ask whether our line of thought is impaired.. maybe we dont understand the system correctly..
but then again maybe we do.. and maybe we were designed to want the things we want because they are not inherently bad..
(i am totally not aiming for a discussion about religions being good or bad - im just trying to understand how this is rationalised)
Rose in Dubai, no, am only saying that if alcohol was banned u shouldn't use the excuse of personal freedom and religion as laws should be applied to everyone without discrimination. And yes, I do believe that our leaders did the wrong thing when they allowed alcohol.
Proud Emirati said...
Rose in Dubai, no, am only saying that if alcohol was banned u shouldn't use the excuse of personal freedom and religion as laws should be applied to everyone without discrimination. And yes, I do believe that our leaders did the wrong thing when they allowed alcohol.
Bravo PE. As do I. And most of this country's citizens. But money it seems, in some cases is more important than what we want.
Like I have said a thousand time. for 2 generations, this country has handed it away piece by piece... and this generation wants some back, and the next will want even more.
And thats that.
And if alcohol was banned I would abide by the law.
But your great leaders have seen fit to practice tolerance and acceptance of different cultures and that is one of the things that makes the UAE such a great place to live. Change that wonderful tolerance and diversity and it won't be such a great place to live and lots of people will leave. Simple.
But the people who will leave are the ones who will find it easy to get work elsewhere, the talented, the motivated, the innovative and the entrepreneurial. The ones who have contributed so much to making Dubai great. What you will be left with are the no-hopers, the idle, the uneducated, and those who can't move because no one else will employ them.
Yes, PE, you and your like will be happy then. Good luck.
"But your great leaders have seen fit to practice tolerance and acceptance of different cultures and that is one of the things that makes the UAE such a great place to live."
True Rose, nicely said.
PE: I hear what you say, and to an extent, I understand where you're coming from. Personally, I do not drink (its got nothing to do with religion or culture, I just cannot stand smell of alcohol), however some of my friends (expat & local) do. I've had share of 'talks' with some, and after a point, I respect their right to enjoy a glass of wine. That does not make them 'horrible' people, if anything they are the brightest, nicest and self made folks I've known. Like everything else, be it driving, appropriate clothing or drinking, a sense of responsibility is what matters. Irresponsible driving is no less 'evil' to irresponsible drinking. I realize past few years, some folks have not exercised that sense of responsibility and abused tolerance, which is why guidelines re-issued shall help align to what's accepted. In a multicultural town everybody's got to chip-in to better understand and respect ways of life. Enough said.
Rosh, I don't know why we got into the deeds of ur friends who drink alcohol? This is really irrelevant. I personally think that alcohol is an enjoyment that the world can live without and I have my reasons, religious or not, to believe that the UAE shouldn't be allowing it, simple as that.
and oh yes, I refuse to call Dubai a multicultural society. It is an Islamic Arab city hosting different cultures.
Rose in Dubai, I said this before and I say it here. I don't think that we need the likes of whom cannot live without alcohol. Those leaders allow alcohol not because they are tolerant. Beside, how do u only talk about how almighty our leaders are when it comes to bending our lives to satisfy foreigners while forgetting that leaders should be following what their citizens want. I mean the moment ur government do something the majority do not like u throw them from power. Why do u object having what we Emiratis want?
A Blessing in Tragedy, this is a very optimistic view but I love it nevertheless.
I remember reading online few days about a guy who said that he got a complain from the management because someone complained that he goes bare naked from the shower to the locker room. He was saying that he used to do that here for the last 10 years and no one complained so this guy doesn't have the right to complain about it.
So I was thinking, first, just because no one complained doesn't justify what he is doing. I mean, ewww, shouldn't he be at least try to know what the people think about what he is doing and, second, and most importantly is that we have now a generation of Emiratis whom while adapting to changes, like being seen more often in what used to be western dominated playground, still demand sticking to our cultural values.
I mean the moment ur government do something the majority do not like u throw them from power.
Proud Emirati, I ask this purely from a curious point of view. Do you think you have that power?
"I don't know why we got into the deeds of ur friends who drink alcohol? This is really irrelevant."
Because, you say, "I do believe that our leaders did the wrong thing when they allowed alcohol."
Obviously there's got to be a tangible or substantive reason why you feel so, aside your personal and cultural views? I've listed (which your refer as 'deeds') why I think a responsible glass of wine does not automatically qualify someone 'wrong' or in the red. What's yours?
Multiculturalism generally refers to an ideology of racial, cultural and ethnic diversity within the demographics of a specified place. UAE since inception, have had people of diverse racial, cultural and ethnic backgrounds, live, work and contribute to what it is today. That is a fact. 'Hosted', temporary or otherwise is another debate all together.
Kyle @ 19 March, 2009 22:49
Most imp comment yet.
Loaded... really; loaded question. Hope u get a rational answer.
-FR
Multiculturalism generally refers to an ideology of racial, cultural and ethnic diversity within the demographics of a specified place. UAE since inception, have had people of diverse racial, cultural and ethnic backgrounds, live, work and contribute to what it is today. That is a fact. 'Hosted', temporary or otherwise is another debate all together.
You just said it though. Hosted. And for some reason when I am honest, my comments are deleted.
A country should look after it's CITIZENS. anyone else is a BUSINESS TRANSACTION. You, him, her. Transactions. Assets to whoever or whatever is listed on your VISA.
When you are no longer an asset, you are disposed of.
Pure, simple.
This isnt even a debate. Had this happened ANYWHERE else, and non citizens were questioning the way a country sets laws for its citizens, some rednecks in TX would have started shooting non-citizens
Something I am very very for right now.
Yes, PE, you and your like will be happy then. Good luck.
So are you leaving? I have the party planner on hold... are you?
Kyle said...
I mean the moment ur government do something the majority do not like u throw them from power.
Proud Emirati, I ask this purely from a curious point of view. Do you think you have that power?
No, We dont. But we also dont want to. when weighing the bad this govt does with its good, for its CITIZENS, the good outweighs the bad. I am provided with safety, education, health, a means to make a living, social security, and more and more, slowly but surely, a book of laws that put me 1st.
It may not be as good as it once was. But non the less, it is good. and much better than say, your government.
And what proof do I have of that? I dont need to know where you are from, or who you are. Mine can make sure I dont have to leave to make a simple living. Yours coudnt even take care of you.
So like I said, no, we dont have that power, but we dont really want it. Just more consideration, and these rules are a step in that direction.
Oh, I'm also VERY against democracy personally, if that was going to come up. I'm a firm believer that 90% of people arent even smart enough to tie their own shoes... those are the types that are actually legally able to vote in a democracy. You dont get votes according to academic achievement, or IQ scores, or...
Bush was elected TWICE after all. I'm not willing to place my future in the hands of the masses in bani Yas. I'll take my chances with leaders groomed to lead from boyhood. Chances are they can do a better job than the Yamani Emarati that wears a yellow kandoora and drives his new hummer up the wrong side of the road.
No, We dont. But we also dont want to.
A Blessing in Tragedy
I think you pretty much answered my question with the quoted line.
Appreciate that.
This has been a fascinating debate. We seem to have got to a point where PE, who claims to represent what Emiratis think, and ABIT, who hates the idea of democracy, are stuck in a situation they don't like. In other countries, the answer is simple: change the leadership. In the UAE, you cannot do that (not without an armed revolt, anyway). So you're kind of trapped, aren't you? I think the UAE has had to be so accommodating to foreigners in the past and even now because the country simply will not work without them.
If you imagine that the country can work without foreign expertise / labour, you are deluding yourselves. If you think that turning the UAE into a Saudi-like state, you will find foreigners leaving in droves.
"You just said it though. Hosted. And for some reason when I am honest, my comments are deleted."
Again, 'hosted' (temporarily or otherwise) significant majority of habitants in the UAE have always been noncitizens of diverse racial, cultural and ethnic backgrounds. Even if noncitizens are 'disposed of' or choose to relocate, it shall significantly remain diverse for foreseeable future, given she/he most likely shall be replaced by noncitizen. Unless I've missed something, to imply UAE is not diverse doesn't cut ice.
And for the record, please, you can be honest AND be civil, After all, isn't civility and culture that's debated here?
"A country should look after it's CITIZENS. anyone else is a BUSINESS TRANSACTION. You, him, her. Transactions. Assets to whoever or whatever is listed on your VISA."
Aside personal relationships, most things in life are business transactions. You or I, are a business transaction at the bank. You or I, are terminated if unproductive or unprofitable, you or I, find another job and move on. Likewise, most noncitizen folk anywhere on this planet, the world does revolve, however, does not mean people shouldn't be allowed or debate basic rights, does it? Aren't you just tired of saying that phrase? Its lost all impact, if any.
"This isnt even a debate. Had this happened ANYWHERE else, and non citizens were questioning the way a country sets laws for its citizens, some rednecks in TX would have started shooting non-citizens".
It's interesting you say that, especially for a nation which 'hosts' significant noncitizens on a 'business transactions basis' as well as have gone International via sale of resources, significant acquisitions and investment in foreign assets whilst relentlessly promoting to global economy, I'd think you as a banker and citizen should know better.
Most folks aren't EVEN questioning (aside the hand holding aspect) Code Of Conduct that's been reissued. Personally, ALL noncitizens I've known, as well as I, have always respected and complied. Unfortunately, there shall always be some miscreants.
I think the UAE has had to be so accommodating to foreigners in the past and even now because the country simply will not work without them.
Duh, I never said otherwise.
If you imagine that the country can work without foreign expertise / labour, you are deluding yourselves. If you think that turning the UAE into a Saudi-like state, you will find foreigners leaving in droves.
Because all the foreigners left Saudi Arabia? Dont make me laugh. Money is what keeps people here. And for those who do leave, others will follow.
And where did I say I didnt like it? I pointed out VERY clearly that no matter my situation here, it is far better than most places. and the BEST proof is that so many people come here.
One would have to be insane to be somewhere if there was somewhere better.
Unless I've missed something, to imply UAE is not diverse doesn't cut ice.
I never said it wasnt diverse. the UAE has a population that is VERy diverse. but a government's job is to take care of its CITIZENS. If the Emarati population were 1%, it is the UAE's job to cater to that 1% as best it can. not the other 99%.
And for the record, please, you can be honest AND be civil, After all, isn't civility and culture that's debated here?
A am actually trying to be very civil. and very honest, and I dont think I've been rude at all.
does not mean people shouldn't be allowed or debate basic rights, does it?
It depends on what you see as your right. as a resident and not a citizen of a country, your right is that of safety. THATS IT. (By safety I mean yourself, your property, your family) so as not to have someone bring up a scenario where I think it's ok to jack your car.
The govt shouldnt provide you with food, shelter, or in ANY way facilitate your wants or needs in their laws.
You have safety. you want guaranteed shelter, work, or political rights? go back home.
It's interesting you say that, especially for a nation which 'hosts' significant noncitizens on a 'business transactions basis' as well as have gone International via sale of resources, significant acquisitions and investment in foreign assets whilst relentlessly promoting to global economy, I'd think you as a banker and citizen should know better.
Ah, but what the makeup of the people the UAE hosts is IRRELEVANT. And a country SHOULD always strive for a more international way of doing business.
When I go to the US, I wear a business suit. But never do I imply that I have any rights aside from those given to me by that country (or by the contracts I am party to)
Here, because the majority of the population is not from here, it has been assumed, and more so slowly, that this majority has, or should have a right in political representation.
No. Like I said, the 15-20% or 1%. A govt laws should be for their own people. If a govt wants to make it easier for international business to take place, so be it, but that doesnt give a right to a person who is not a citizen of a country to question that country;s laws.
If the laws strike your fancy, or if they dont but you can live with them, please come, do business. If you cant, dont, someone else will.
Most folks aren't EVEN questioning (aside the hand holding aspect) Code Of Conduct that's been reissued. Personally, ALL noncitizens I've known, as well as I, have always respected and complied. Unfortunately, there shall always be some miscreants.
Oh but you just went on to my main point. IF YOU ARE NOT A UAE CITIZEN, YOU HAVE NOT EVEN THE RIGHT TO QUESTION THE UAE'S LAWS.
I do. I have EVERY right to question my country's laws, just as you do yours. I however DO NOT have the right to ever think of questioning yours, and you do not have that right either.
BTW, I actually didnt write any of those posts with you in mind. I can sort of step away from my one sided nationalistic mindset when I read your posts because, although I have no idea where you are from, I can see that you arent... (insert expletive here)
But you will agree, "some" types of residents, especially in the last oh, decade, have turned into king pharaoh, especially in Dubai.
I have no issues with anyone, and although I seem like a total tool and racist, Im not. I'm a nationalist.
Like I've said a million times, your passport is stamped with your keeper. You are a business transaction. Doesnt mean you arent human, but it does mean that your needs and wants will be met minimally by a govt other than your own.
If you want to be here, for whatever reason, and you can legally be here, so be it. "7ayak" as we say. If you cant, then dont be.
But dont delude yourself into thinking that oh, because Ive been here... maybe 20 years, I now have a glimmer of a right to even debate LAWS or RULES.
Etisalat? fine, bitch, you are a consumer, its your right, Du? Ok, the supermarket? yeah, even Dunkin Donuts (as my last blog post) But not MY govt. Because I think they already accommodate a diverse population way too much.
Probably much more than any of your govts would accommodate me.
".... and more and more, slowly but surely, a book of laws that put me 1st."
Does that mean laws like those promoting employment for Nationals, or does it mean laws that will allow nationals jumping red lights to be let off more leniently than expats doing the same?
ok ok ok. I agree with the idea that a government should prioritize the needs and wants of its own people first.
However, dubai is also a special case. To maintain the highest standard of living for its own citizens, it is beneficial for the UAE government to throw a cookie to the base of its economy. Dubai is, depending on the source, 20% local and 80% international. The economy, and subsequently the sustainability of a high standard of living is based on the international population here.
I'm not saying the the native population isn't involved, only that the international population is more active in that regard. To maintain an environment in which the international population will continue Dubai's growth and help its people (even in the economic slowdown), perhaps more care should be taken to their customs.
In the 19th and 20th centuries in the United States for example, immigration became one of the mainstay's of the economy, even if it wasn't always welcomed.
I'm not arguing that you should lose your religion like the united states, i'm only highlighting the fact that the US learned to co-operate more with its inernational population and subsequently became an international superpower....
just food for thought... natives win when international populations get a few concessions as well...
And also, please don't assume that people come to Dubai because their own countries are horrible. Many come here because businesses want to grow and expand. and simply because they like to experience the world.
>>I don't think that we need the likes of whom cannot live without alcohol<<
PE, I grant you that. Those who can't live without alcohol are rarely productive members of society. But there's a big difference between someone who can't live without alcohol and someone who enjoys a glass of wine when its appropriate to do so.
>>I dont need to know where you are from, or who you are. Mine can make sure I dont have to leave to make a simple living. Yours coudnt even take care of you<<
ABIT, why do you always make the assumption that people come here to work because they have to? I chose to come and work here because it was an opportunity to expand my horizons and experience new and exciting things, a different way of life and a new culture. I will remain here as long as that is the case, and when it stops being the case I will move somewhere else. Life's an adventure and there's a big world out there to enjoy! But if you think the only reason people come here is because they can't survive in their own country you must have a pretty low opinion of this place.
Also I don't believe it is the job of a government to provide you with a life. You earn that for yourself. Only the very inadequate or the very unfortunate should have to rely on their government to provide for them.
i recently saw a documentary about dubais post oil strategy which focussed on tourism and foreign investment..
now we have people buying their own islands
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1TcQXSK_6k
is this the same dubai that some are arguing is claiming itself back? to me it looks like it is selling itself off and expanding itself merely and solely to sell off even more..
will these supposedly islamic - arabic - call them as you may - rules apply to these islands as well? we have already said that private ownership is not the criterion - access may also be somewhat restricted but then again these islands shall be in view of anyone sailing dubai's territorial waters.. so will the women of the rich irish brothers (in the video) need to cover up as they relax on their private beach?
i think there is a fundamental contradiction here.. i am speaking as an outsider BUT the preservation of values championed by a local very slim minority seems to fly in the face of its very own incessant campaign to the west that dubai is their private (perhaps even subservient) playground wonderland in the romantic desert heart of an arab region..
given how expensive dubai is to maintain and given its dependency on foreign human and capital resources i would suggest some more open mindedness to ensure that this urban wonderland doesnt sink together with the fizzling price of oil..
Dubai is known for it's hyperbole and this dialogue highlights that.
However, the Guardian UK, that paper of Germaine Greer and her bus tour journalism, today does show hyperbole, but of a different style:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/mar/20/dubai-decline-middle-east?showallcomments=true
lol @ guardian article...Simon Jenkins should write Sci Fi
I love the last two paragraphs, what a drama queen
"Gangs will seize the gated estates and random anarchy will rule the soulless boulevards. "
Will we be ruled by Robots too ? Or camel robots ? Camel robots that shoot bees out of their mouths...bees that give you violent explosive diarrhea when stung of course. This whole spiel reminds me of the movie Bladerunner, the last bit when Rutger Hauer says
"I've seen things...you people..wouldn't believe..."
Anonymous said...
".... and more and more, slowly but surely, a book of laws that put me 1st."
Does that mean laws like those promoting employment for Nationals, or does it mean laws that will allow nationals jumping red lights to be let off more leniently than expats doing the same?
Both.
Anonymous said...
ok ok ok. I agree with the idea that a government should prioritize the needs and wants of its own people first.
Finally!
In the 19th and 20th centuries in the United States for example, immigration became one of the mainstay's of the economy, even if it wasn't always welcomed.
Ah, but you said immigration. We do not have that here. It isnt the same case.
Now again, If the UAE decided to change it's policy, and allow immigrants to become citizens, That would be different. But since that is not the policy (not saying it doesnt happen, I have met a Brazilian Emarati!) But it isnt the policy. This argument doesnt stick.
Lirun said...
i recently saw a documentary about dubais post oil strategy
Post Oil? Dubai has or had oil to start with? They, and the other emirates (no offence PE, have been mooching of of Abu Dhabi for almost 4 decades.)
ABIT, why do you always make the assumption that people come here to work because they have to?
Because that is the case for the MAJORITY of UAE citizens. I didnt say it was everyones/ Case in point, I know an American gentleman who's salary is 165K a month. no counting benifits. I am sure with his expertise and degrees he could fetch something close anywhere in the world.
But those cases are not the norm. The hordes of people here are here because they simply couldnt live where they are from, either for money, or political unrest, or what have you.
Not saying those arent good reasons to leave your country... They are good ones. Valid ones, but lets not pretend that most people WANT to be anywhere but home.
Also I don't believe it is the job of a government to provide you with a life. You earn that for yourself. Only the very inadequate or the very unfortunate should have to rely on their government to provide for them.
Sorry, I have to disagree, and only someone who has a really bad govt would say that.
it IS a govt's job to supply it's people with healthcare, education, and laws to protect their interests. Again, if yours cant do that, I'm sorry, but mine can and has.
It IS NOT my govt's job to buy me a BMW though... When I am willing and able, I might (No I wont, lol, I love American cars) but Im just saying, things like land, healthcare, education... These are what a govt should be supplying.
If not, than what good is a govt? Just there to be a figure head? to act like something and do nothing?
I just realized something as I was in Dubai today... NOT ONE person was dressed or acting against these rules. And I was looking. Searching even!
I also re-realized that motley Crue is probably who I should blame for how I came out. lol. And the beachboys are by far the best rock band ever.
Have a good weekend everyone.
Life's an adventure and there's a big world out there to enjoy! But if you think the only reason people come here is because they can't survive in their own country you must have a pretty low opinion of this place.
Also I don't believe it is the job of a government to provide you with a life. You earn that for yourself. Only the very inadequate or the very unfortunate should have to rely on their government to provide for them.
Rose in Dubai: that was succinctly put.
Stands up and applauds.
'that was succinctly put.'
Don Corleone: Suck what? LOL
(Robin Hood - Men in Tights)
Sorry, I couldn't help it ;)
Rose in Dubai: You have my vote too.
Ha!
Just when mousy little Miss Jones was considering (finally!) living up to her namesake and turn into a bit of a wanton sex goddess with all kinds of in-your-face public displays of ..erm.. "affection" ha! ;)
Aaargh! Aaargh! Me forgot! Jokes not allowed! Aaargh! Aaargh!
Wow
good amount of UAE/Dubai haters out there
great examples of cheap shots
amazing cases of "bite the hand that fed you"
And the usual interference from people who have remotely nothing to do with UAE..you know who you are!!!
Anyways...like any other nation we have our ups and downs, pros and cons..and we never claimed perfection
we only aimed at doing good for ourselves and success and failure is bound to happen along the road
We are delighted to have the government that provide us with far better leadership than many other democratic countries...
have they made some mistakes along the way??
ABSOLUTELY!!!
But they still have done an amazing job running this country
I sure don't wanna change that
cuz imagine having the liberty to change and electing someone like Bush twice so he can come one more time and kill the world finance once and for all (killing humans was not enough)..now that would say alot about me as an individual and my people as a nation...
I think PE and ABIT have done a wonderful job trying to explain everything like they're doing it for KG kids...but unfortunately some people just don't wanna accept our culture and religion.
Well, once a very wise US President said: If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.
LONG LIVE THE UAE!!!
GOOD TO HAVE THOSE RULES!!!
P.S. Most Emaratis do think the same way as PE...I can vouche for that...too bad you guys would still live in denial and we can do nothing about it.
I would just like to add that there is NO such thing as a sugar free sweet. It's a lie. my fat ass is proof. lol.
Damn sugar free patchi.
GOOD GOD! you guys are still at it?
:/
umm... anyways. i had small observation to make... clearly the list has not been issued either in arabic, or just not to the emiratis...
i was down at JBR Walk over the weekend, the emirati boyZ were blasting music from their range rovers, and umm... one had a corvette.
and there's a bunch of them circling a certain park in dubai trying to either pick up females, or pass their numbers around.
according to the new memo, both of the above are illegal. or do the new rules only apply to expats?
The law doesn't apply on Emiratis hemlock
Was it a corvette, or a Z06? Specify!
No, all that is illegal. did YOU call the cops? You should have! A rule is a rule for everyone. You should have called the cops.
As I did in Dubai mall today. Made the security guard call his 'supervisor" and "ask" a woman to leave the store I was in. It worked!
But we shouldnt have to enforce these rules. WE NEED THE MUTAWAS! WE SO DO! And I want to be one!
It would be the best job ever! running around cafes, malls, and parks, handing out citations for anyone who did something I didnt like or dressed how I didnt like.
You so know I would discard the rules. It would turn into my rules.
Hire me Dubai!!!
If such a law is passed and people have the power to kick others out oh shops (as ABIT said), I swear I will complain about every Indian I see, I cant stand them!
PE: multiple sets of rules make perfect sense as long as we know who falls in what category.
ABIT: oh dude!!! come off of it :/
you know all you abu dhabi dudes come to dubai on the weekends cuz it offers more eyecandy. if you continue to throw skanks out of malls and eventually dubai, it will become abu dhabi II...
where would you guys go then?
i didnt chk the corvette in much detail. im not a fan of 2nd tier american wannabe sports cars. it was red and convertible and the driver was seeking attention. *sigh*
as for calling the cops on the stalkers... no. i wouldnt be surprised if - being an expat, and a female one at that, and being outdoors - the cops turn around to me and tell me i should be arrested under the new (in)decency laws. =)
but ive saved their respective car details in case it gets out of hand.
Hire me Dubai!!!
LOL! why? are the banks in Abu Daddy under duress? ;)
@ Hemlock
"Hire me Dubai!!!
LOL! why? are the banks in Abu Daddy under duress? ;)"
The rate at which formerly indestructible instituitions are crumbling. Anything can happen, be prepared for the "impossible".
Hope for the best but be prepared for the worst!
-FR
Everything is going to be same as it is. nothing is gonna change as per the law. u will still find those sexy cloths in displays in malls and still people with bikini in the beach and etc etc... but if it does changes then dubai has to think of its future travellers who will never come back to enjoy the high street life coz its never gonna be the same agian..
but this is what we want, we would never want it to be the same again
I am quite amused by the notion, as expressed by some of the Emirati posters, that tolerance of "immoral Western behaviour" was somehow demanded by us and is for our benefit (by "us" I mean ordinary Western expats who are here to work). Actually, this tolerance was for the financial benefit of Dubai itself. It attracted tourists and short-term expats who were willing to live it up and spend their money here, however they were just tools to earn more money through taxes and hotel revenues for Dubai. And whilst there has been the old high-profile case involving Western expats (e.g. Vince & Michelle) you are just as likely to meet Arabs, Iranians and Asians giving it large in the clubs as you are Westerners.
If Dubai had not marketed itself as a glitzy, sexy destination, the tourists would not have "demanded" it become a party city, they would just have gone elsewhere with no great loss to them. It would have been no loss culturally to Dubai, but obviously a setback for efforts to diversify the economy and find new sources of revenue.
As someone who has had the privilege of experiencing this country from as long ago the 1970's, from the point of view of an ordinary working Westerner, things were fine how they were - drinking and partying was confined to expat societies, private parties, a few low-key pubs and clubs; people knew the rules and public bad behaviour was relatively rare.
Quite simply, Dubai went down this route because it fitted with Dubai's strategy. It was not demanded by Western expats. If you now believe that, as a result, your city is overrun by idiots (of all nationalities)that don't know how to behave, you should ask why this was allowed to come about - we didn't ask for it!
Quite simply, Dubai went down this route because it fitted with Dubai's strategy. It was not demanded by Western expats. If you now believe that, as a result, your city is overrun by idiots (of all nationalities)that don't know how to behave, you should ask why this was allowed to come about - we didn't ask for it!
I agree 100%. As I said, for 2 generations WE let this happen. My fathers generation and the one before him. Look thru my posts. I blame no one BUT the last 2 Emarati generations.
Hemlock... You're a woman? Hum. I ddnt know this.
2nd tier american sports cars? lol. at 505hp a Z06 will out run anything in it's class. At 638 hp, a ZR1 vette will outrun almost anything.
American cars, since the 69 camero, to this day, have been the cream of the crop of fast cars. They formed the basis of what a fast car should be, and helped define 3 generations.
Oh, and my charger will outrun a GTR or 360 anywhere anytime. So your comment shows a lack of understanding of muscle, classic or modern.
ABIT: oh dude!!! come off of it :/
you know all you abu dhabi dudes come to dubai on the weekends cuz it offers more eyecandy. if you continue to throw skanks out of malls and eventually dubai, it will become abu dhabi II...
where would you guys go then?
Actually, the ONLY reason I go to Dubai every weekend is because my Fiance's family are there. and with how busy I am, I only get to see them on Fridays, or once in the middle of the week if Im lucky. I have no need, want, or desire for "eye candy" as that usually ends up with:
1. A cop citing you with a dot on your record that will mess your employment chances up later on.
2. Making a comeple fool of yourself as you try to "impress" a random girl with your "cool car" that you cant really afford.
3. A "friendship" starts that leads to way too many hotel bills, damas bills, and probably an STD.
I'm a very basic person. I work ALOT, and like that. I like my car, and my guitars, and I adore the woman I'm going to marry, and for some reason (because I really am just as much an asshole in person) she seems to think I'm special... Not in a Im retarded kind of way, which is not something you find everyday.
Hire me Dubai!!!
LOL! why? are the banks in Abu Daddy under duress? ;)
Not at all. Actually I'm on my best behavior these days. I'm up for a promotion. :-D (Wish me luck?)
Still, a government job will always pay more here, and the fact that my job would basically be running around, like a bum, telling people what they cant do... Tailor made for me!
Realistically, who WOULDNT want that job?
ABIT: im stunned :) this is the second time in this post ive had to clarify my gender. err... wtf?
argh. argh argh argh... i'm guessing you got SOME part of your education from the US. only the americans boast about american cars. the rest of the world doesnt acknowledge them as cars (and again, this is totally biased - it's my opinion against yours, and clearly, generalization is allowed).
IMHO, the only decent piece to come out of the US is the shelby 500 (super snakes - my definition of muscle)...
i dont want to be dropping names (like say, the veyron, or the zonda or the mclaren slr or the r8) because hey, what would a girl know about cars, but if you are ever up for performance evaluation (im guessing your charger is a 3.5l v6 250hp?!), we'll race it with a 330i. and then we'll see.
from your comments, i can tell you dont air your dirty laundry in public, and that's an intelligent thing to do. you can identify what needs to be changed, and are smart enough to come up with solutions and are articulate enough to express your opinion - when you arent telling people to leave =D.
telling someone to stfu when they cant stop complaining doesnt make you an asshole.
good luck with your promotion. *fingers crossed*.
drive safe.
and let me know if you ever want your a$$ kicked on SZR. =)
argh. argh argh argh... i'm guessing you got SOME part of your education from the US. only the americans boast about american cars. the rest of the world doesnt acknowledge them as cars (and again, this is totally biased - it's my opinion against yours, and clearly, generalization is allowed).
IMHO, the only decent piece to come out of the US is the shelby 500 (super snakes - my definition of muscle)...
i dont want to be dropping names (like say, the veyron, or the zonda or the mclaren slr or the r8) because hey, what would a girl know about cars, but if you are ever up for performance evaluation (im guessing your charger is a 3.5l v6 250hp?!), we'll race it with a 330i. and then we'll see.
AHAHAHA! 3.5 liter? Hardly. My charger is an RT. It CAME with a 5.7 liter doing 340 hp. My car currently has a hand built custom made 6.7 liter (a 409... lol) making 570 hp thru a modified 5 speed, 500 hp half shafts, 3200 stall TQ, 85mm TB, and stage 3 P&P HEMI heads with titanium EVERYTHING... And this 570 is WITHOUT the 150hp shot of nitrous.
All motor. No turbos, no supercharger... YET.
She is the fastest Charger in the Middle east (and probably outside of Australia and the US.)
So yes, As I have outrun Porches 911s, BMW M5s, M3s, and E55s, I'd like to be beaten by a 330. lol.
Hell, My daily driver (Impala SS, 6.0 liter 360 hp) would eat your 330.
Checkout my blog called Project Nevermore. It's a work log of my car's transformation. My target is 900 hp. I hope in the next 3 years or so.
I owe the US a bit. Not just the education, but my love for muscle cars, My love for guitars. By love for the English langauge...
A GT500 is ok, Hell, even today's GT500, which is the most powerful ever made (540 hp) is a very nice muscle car. I'm actually thinking of getting one. Cause I need 3 modern muscle cars.
But come now, a 68 charger with a 440 would run circles around that Shelby. Looks better too... IMO anyways.
As for your gender... I dunno. I think it's common place to mistake most people online for guys unless their usernames are rose this or cutie that.
I apologize. Wont happen again.
How sweet.
The two children are chalking up roadkill with their fierce cars.
And one wonders how accidents happen.
It's amazing how many people have wasted their time writing here. No one is going to change anyone else's mind. All I know is I can't wait to go home in a few months. The UAE is unwelcoming. I have dressed modestly here and have never felt so disrespected by men here. I have been shocked to see Emirati and other arab men hitting on me when I have my young child with me. I hate to see so much responsibility placed on women when it is clear that men cannot control themselves. It is sick.
Well, same old story; 145 comments, most of them abusing the country and the government. Human beings are clearly never satisfied. If decency laws aren't there, the country isn't being true to its traditions and religion and is going through an 'identity crisis', and if they are there then free will has been controlled and totalitarianism has taken over. Is there any middle ground? No matter how hard they try they can not please everyone.
But the fact of the matter is this, these rules aren't new. I was born and brought up here and at the age of 20 I've seen this country, specifically the city of Dubai, struggle with implementing these same rules at various times throughout my life. The fact that it has to be done over and over again says something both about the government as well as the ex-patriates who demand the opportunity to exist the way they wish.
Most of us come from countries where the freedoms we have here we would never have back home. In the 'Western progressive' countries of the world there is a dress code within malls. Nudity on the beach is not allowed in most non-European countries. And drunk driving, smoking in non-designated areas, general public disturbances, taking photographs of people without permission, in taking drugs, playing inappropriately loud music, making rude gestures, or insulting the rulers of the nation, are all acts that are put down and strictly prohibited. (The above mentioned rules are all others that were listed with the revised social conduct laws).
There are rules, there are regulations, and without them we’d have anarchy. Are they fair? Are they appropriate? That will always vary depending on opinion. Personally I don’t feel that I will have to publicly display affection to my husband for him to know how much I love him. That is something I would want to limit to our own personal space. And furthermore, I would hate, and do hate, seeing people making out on MOE benches, and couples groping each other at Ibn Batuttah Mall. Show a little bit of respect, if not for yourself then at least for the country you’re currently residing in as well as the people of that country.
This is a Muslim country, this is an Arab country, and tremendous compromises have been made over the years to happily accommodate non-Muslims and non-Arabs, but here’s the beauty of it, most of the Westerners or non-Muslims that I know are the ones who actually believe these laws and rules should exist. It’s about common decency. The hand holding rule will never fully go forth, because it never has, and we exist in a world where there is the daily debate of whether or not you should shake hands with a woman in hijab. (As a woman in hijab I’d like to point out that it is considered inappropriate, not insulting, just not part of our beliefs and please don’t start another ridiculous debate on that topic, it’s been done).
Anyway, bottom line, there is good and bad everywhere in the world. It’s all about taking it with a pinch of salt, accepting that you live here, and sucking it up. If not, no one is keeping you here. Except for the luxury car, the 4 bedroom apartment, the maid…
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