02 July, 2007

So you really care about labourers, do you?

Some popular bloggers claim they care about the UAE when their posts are all really propaganda = in simple words: complaints, complaints and more propaganda.

And when the time comes that they have to pay up in terms of Salik, suddenly their complaints on the subject forget to mention the so-called "poor treatment of labourers".

When the time comes for cash to exit their own pockets, they only think of themselves. What hypocrisy.

Salik, and any other complaints you may have, o complainers, also happens to affect, amongst yourselves, the poor little labourers whose "lack of rights" you so dearly "speak out" against.

And not one of these o dear complainers' posts against Salik include the "disadvantage" of the even longer distance labourers have in getting to their own dear old homes.

What a selfish, two-faced blogging-world we live in.

58 comments:

secretdubai said...

What on earth are you talking about?

archer14 said...

I've got news for you.

It's a dog eat dog world.

Brn said...

Do you even know what the words "propaganda" and "hypocrisy" mean? Because from this post it sounds like you think that they mean "something bad that I don't like."

"Propaganda" is not a synonym for complaints. And calling objecting to the Salik plan and to the treatment of laborers "hypocrisy" is the best example of a non sequitur that I have seen in some time.

DXBluey said...

I too am a bit confused by your post...

... apart from brn's spot on observations, what does salik and the "poor treatment of labourers" have to do with each other?

what do you care about i*maginate?

ShaggyRed said...

Colour me confused, but isn't the fact Salik affects everyone in equally bad ways the reason we're complaining.

Ipso facto, no-one's being a hypocrit, only stating the obvious when it comes to a poorly implemented toll system.

Anonymous said...

After you were recognized by gulf news as one of the best bloggers u became cheesy.You're trying to polish. I was intrested now its boring bye.

Anonymous said...

well what do you expect from this kind of woman i*maginate? NADA!

Anonymous said...

So the only way we can show we care about an issue or someone is to cough up cash?

isabella said...

sweety, stay posting on your love troubles and that is it. also a bit of cake recipes wouldnt be bad, but please stop there.

Anonymous said...

Please repost clarifying what you meant by this post

nick said...

i*maginate,

The only propaganda I have come across in this forum is Islamofascist propaganda from 'al-republican' and do-goodying bootlicking (sandal licking?) from yourself.

The rest are mostly reasonable and justified gripes and complaints about inefficiencies / imcompetence of the Executive.

Everyone is worse off by Salik, except the RTA.

Even the poor birds at Ras AL Khor will suffer more due to the increase in traffic on Al Khail road. Why not include them in your post?

gripey said...

Yep. Them labourers looked purty grim drivin their red Toyotas home yestiddy. Musta bin dat Salik tickin em off.

But...who wuz dem blokes in the 50 seater TATA buses then....executives?

Anonymous said...

Care to share some of the nice dope you're smoking , i*maginate ?

Hatem said...

I think many bloggers just like to keep whining all the time to show how they "suffer in this evil world". They complain all the time to give the message that others are "the worst", which will automatically put them in the category of "better than worst", hoping to feel good! I think that those people are having severe problems in their real life, and they complain, not for the sake of making things better, but just to make themselves feel better...
I agree with you i*maginate and I know exactly what you mean.

i*maginate said...

Propaganda = "information, ideas, or rumors deliberately spread widely to help or harm a person, group, movement, institution, nation, etc."

In some popular blogs this translates to spreading harmful insults about the local culture and customs.

Hypocrisy = "a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess"

Posts on popular blogs regarding the poor treatment of labourers are written with the intent to insult the government, and seldom will you find posts on the same topic that are neutral and "sober" criticism of policies, without propaganda.

It is therefore hypocritical of the writers of posts on Salik that reek of propaganda, that the poor treatment of labourers is not referred to. Did they suddenly forget that the "overworked" labourers now have a much longer journey to make? It is hypocritical that this bypassed their minds at this point.

It is hypocritical when those who proclaim, through their posts, that they care about labourer's suffering, then forget to care about them when the going gets tough for "all".

*nick, I'm not going to answer your "Islamofascist" propaganda remark, you can go poke fun at the local culture on other "popular" blogs where such comments are obviously welcome.

As for your point about the poor birdies being affected by Salik, I understand you're being sarcastic but it's a very valid point. If the environment were a popular subject on popular blogs, and suddenly it was not mentioned on posts about Salik, then I would consider that as hypocritical too. In this case, substitute the birdies for labourers, and point made.

*dxbluey, in resp to your Q, I care about consistency in blogger's opinions, and less propaganda & hypocrisy.

Brn said...

i*maginate,

Thank you for your very thoughtful and clear response.

Propaganda = "information, ideas, or rumors deliberately spread widely to help or harm a person, group, movement, institution, nation, etc."

In some popular blogs this translates to spreading harmful insults about the local culture and customs.


By that definition, isn't what you are writing here propaganda too? Aren't you deliberately spreading information or ideas widely to help a "person, group, movement, institution, nation, etc."?

Posts on popular blogs regarding the poor treatment of labourers are written with the intent to insult the government, and seldom will you find posts on the same topic that are neutral and "sober" criticism of policies, without propaganda.

I'm curious: how can you tell from a post about laborers which writers are trying to bring the plight of workers to light and which ones just want to insult the government? Isn't it more than a little presumptuous for you or anyone else to state that you know what other people's motivations are?

It is therefore hypocritical of the writers of posts on Salik that reek of propaganda, that the poor treatment of labourers is not referred to.

So by your logic, if I do not use every single argument I can for my position, I'm being hypocritical?

It is hypocritical when those who proclaim, through their posts, that they care about labourer's suffering, then forget to care about them when the going gets tough for "all".

Couldn't it just be that because they believe that the going is getting tough for all that they don't have to single out how it is getting tough for any specific group?

Brn said...

"we do have alot of two face bastards hiding behind a mask" says someone posting anonymously.

nick said...

i*maginate,

Posts on popular blogs regarding the poor treatment of labourers are written with the intent to insult the government..

Question: where does the poor treatment of labourers stem from, if not from lack of protective laws.
Whom else but the government can one ciriticise for absence of workers' protection, prohibition of freedom of association and organisation, right to strike etc. Because I see valid criticism where you see insults.

How on Earth can you NOT ciriticise the Executive agencies for stupidities like Salik in its present form. Because I see valid criticism where you see insults.

Who is responsible? Shall we criticise ourselves, the western expats?

No need, though. People like you are already doing that.

i*maginate said...

Nick, Brn, I'll post a response tonight.

There are some valid points from you here, including from hatem & the 2 above anons.

i*maginate said...

Not that I agree with you both but I'll explain why later.

Rose in Dubai said...

>>Posts on popular blogs regarding the poor treatment of labourers are written with the intent to insult the government<<

Don't you think that in reality the people who are treating the workers badly are the ones insulting the government? The government in their wisdom has made laws to protect workers but these greedy bastards are ignoring the law and abusing people, that's pretty insulting to the government isn't it? Its certainly very embarrassing for them when certain people think they are above the law, because when they behave badly its the image of the UAE that suffers.

Anonymous said...

You seem to be very polite here, but on your blog you're just another animal we see on the streets.

Are there animals on streets here? Where? Which street?

Stud, such a comment from you proves you're the only one, animal, that is!

Anonymous said...

Nick your intentions are good but I think you should also critisize the ex-pats as far as SALIK is concerned because although the decision was taken by the law enforcing authorities, the consultants are ex-pats and the wonderful system which has sent the same sms to 100s of subscribers is the fault of the system. Some body should have ad the sense to try it before enforcing it.

Confuciubattuta said...

Please, please everybody.

I think I*maginate has been grossly misunderstood. All you need to do is read carefully.

She (or he) is talking about hypocrisy.

That is to say, if you feel that:

(a) labourers suffer from an unfair situation...

(b) Salik in its present form is imperfect and ineffective...

(c) birds on the creek are having their habitat encroached upon...

...and if you truly, truly believe the above, then you will mention all of these things in one single post. Writing about Salik in one post and about labourers in another, shows that you really don't care about either. If you really cared, then you would have mentioned all three in one post. See? Now that's hypocrisy.

As for propaganda, the principle is the same. Now you may wish to say that things are not quite right in Karachi. Do you really care that things are not quite right in Karachi? Or is it that you simply wish to malign the good name of our beautiful country? After all, if you truly are concerned for Karachi, then you should also mention in the same post that little girls get married to dogs in India. If you don't mention that particular fact, then it shows that you really are not quite as concerned for Karachi as you make out to be. Now that's propaganda.

Just one last thing. If anyone objects to your writings, your blogs, your posts, your liberal education, or the fact that you use toilet tissues, then do remember that such persons are very pure souls. After all, how could anyone who attacks you two-faced bastards not be pure of heart?

Tsk, tsk.

i, Bobo said...

FIRST:
The cost to people who are less advantaged was mentioned back in June, and I wasn't the only one:

"And the money thing? Get over yourself -- we're all sitting around writing blog entries on our two thousand dollar laptops. The cost to you and me is not the financial issue that begs discussion."

SECOND:
The two issues are separate -- I suppose you could counter with "most exploited workers are bused into job sites from their labor camps," but really what good would that do? Traffic flow and human rights are two issues so clearly disparate that to attempt to link them defies logic and further insults those who continue to suffer in an oppressive and unfair work environment.

Arguing with this person is pointless to begin with, it's the equivalent of trying to play chess with a chimpanzee.

nick said...

Confuciubattuta, LOL.

We shouldn't forget whaling in Japan, seal clubbing in Canada and the congestion charge in London.

This is all very very terrible and i*maginate is right to scold us for not making reference to this miseries in our blogs.
Haven't you seen on her blog
how upset she is about worldwide atrocities?!


No, me neither. She writes about her promiscuous banging around, and cake.
But deep inside, we all know, she cares very much about Darfur.

Brn said...

Confuciubattuta,

OK, so if one criticizes Salik and the treatment laborers, but in different posts, then that person doesn't *really* care about either one.

So then, if someone criticizes George Bush and the US for favoring Israel and ignoring the plight of Palestinians in one post and then criticizes them for their war in Iraq in a different one, then clearly that means that such a person really doesn't care about either the Iraqis or the Palestinians; otherwise those criticisms would have been in the same post.

Anonymous said...

Caring about labourers is a complete BS by bloggers.

Everyone is here to make money not to give it out.

i*maginate said...

*Brn, I understand your point of view which is only understandable, given you're taking my post word for word and not considering the bigger picture, which is what I'm looking at. Note my post refers to popular blogs - not all of them. And you can probably guess which blogs I'm referring to. Yours, for example, is not one which I'd consider hypocritical etc - or it hasn't immediately given me that impression. Given that, consider that I have come accross many such blogs which "as a whole" are hypocritical and full of propaganda. I'm not referring to how each post is written, I'm talking about whole blogs and whole opinions here of popular blogs and how hypocritical they are, citing one example, which I have referred to in the post, because it is current and, I believe, an appropriate example to present my point. I hope you understand the point I'm making now. If you have further reservations, please let me know, and I'll respond.

*anon 10:25 - I share exactly the same opinion, however I would term the same opinion in a much more polite way. I wouldn't call someone an animal, but I might use the word chimpanzee in my next response to i, bobo, who has kindly introduced me to this previously unheard of word.

I'm deliberately going to refrain on commenting on SDs blog here, please visit my blog "www.desperateprincessdubai.blogspot.com" tomorrow evening where I will be only too glad to appropriately respond to your comment ;)


*nick, I'm glad you shared this comment. I would like to point out that I do *not* disagree with the points you make. And, I do not blame expats willy-nilly for anything and everything, which you gravely misinterpret.

For the record, I'd like to clarify to you that what I *do* have a problem with is *anybody*, whether expat or not, critising the UAE government. This should answer your whole question, I hope. Again, if you'd like to add something further, please do, and I'll respond.

*rose in dubai, I agree, without the "bastards" bit ;). Regardless of who's responsible, if the intent behind these blogs was good, and there was no propaganda against the government, I might have more respect for their opinions. If they clearly show no respect to this country, then I have zilch respect for their opinions, and remain highly offended and insulted.


*anon 16:00, very valid point you make there.

Please could everyone understand I was not debating salik nor labourers etc in this post, the point was to illustrate hypocrisy and propaganda etc. and "two-faced-ness" by using these examples because they are appropriate. But there are some valid points about Salik such as the one above from anon which I have rarely seen on posts for/against Salik, so it's interesting to see here.

i*maginate said...

from ciabata to brn - yes, you dudes *have* misunderstood the point I'm making in my post. Read the comment(s) I made above.

*i, bobo ref your 1st point, sorry, your blog is not popular enough for me to have considered referring to it in my post. In fact, I didn't even know you had a blog. Ref 2nd point, I've explained my point above. Yes, there's no logic in hypocrisy.

*nick, just because I don't write about worldwide atrocities on my own blog doesn't mean I don't have opinions on them - and you know very well I share(d) these elsewhere until my comments were censored ;). You don't even have a public blog. Does that mean you're brainless?

Second point: if you care so much about worldwide atrocities, as you imply, what care do you have leaving comments on my blogs?

samuraisam said...

i*maginate, I've got hand it to your for having an active imagination, but accusing bloggers who post anything at all negative of preaching 'propaganda' needs explaining. If someone was spreading propaganda they'd obviously be getting some benefit out of it, like an entity competing with the UAE government paying them off, I sure as fuck don't get paid for any of my blogging (except for those cheques I receive from Israel) so why the fuck would I (or anyone here) have any reason to point blank lie about the labourer situation?

Do you think all the negative bloggers in the UAE meet up every week to plot key points of the government to attack so their impending takeover goes successfully or so their stocks go through the roof? Face it. It is highly unlikely any negative blogger in the UAE is in it for personal gain, and given the large abundance of negative bloggers (except perhaps personal gratification from bitching because nothing ever seems to get better here) versus positive bloggers… well I’ve said it time and time again, it might just be because the stuff they’re writing is true.

The labourer situation is fucked up, and has been for many years prior. The government has sat on its ass and ignored any criticism just the same as their reaction to child slavery and prostitution in the UAE. You can sit there and pretend the government acts against criticism it hears, but it doesn't, it only takes action when it sees a benefit (sort of like propaganda)

Considering the Burj Dubai strikes were reportedly caused by late labourer transportation (”The initial riot was caused by workers angered because buses to their residential camp were delayed after their shifts, witnesses at the site said.”), it is something that has already been thought off. The labourers were taking hours to be moved around BEFORE salik, what makes you think the government is going to change anything after salik?

And even if any of the bloggers around here did point out the obvious problems with salik where labourers are concerned, what do you think would happen? Do you know who read this blog just a few hours ago? “H.h. The Rulers Court – Dgirp”. They’ve been reading this blog for at least a year, have you seen any of the topics here change anything in this country? I sure as hell haven’t.

“For the record, I'd like to clarify to you that what I *do* have a problem with is *anybody*, whether expat or not, critising the UAE government”
Then you are a fucking dolt; do you think just because of whom or what someone/something is they should be immune from criticism? What you are saying is that you are willing to alter your views and you think that other peoples views should be altered or silenced based upon the premise of them attacking the UAE government; if anything is two-faced, that is.

secretdubai said...

I've deleted some anonymous comments that were just flaming. If all you're going to is write anonymous insults directed at people, and not even bother to debate the issue, then you are not welcome here.

Member and people that post by a recognisable identity get more leeway. If you have a track record of at least posting quality content sometimes, then you earn the right to have a bit of a let off steam once in a while.

But if you think you have a right to come on here anonymously and fling obscenities at people, well, think again ;)

And just to add to the debate: imaginate you are digging yourself into a hole. You made a very silly post, you have failed to defend your arguments, and you would do best to shut up and move on to a different subject before you embarrass yourself further.

Oh - and if the government is allowing labourers to be ill-treated in the UAE, then the government deserves to be criticised. Just because it is the government doesn't give it a moral carte blanche to do as it pleases. Quite the opposite in fact: it should be accountable to us all.

i, Bobo said...

", bobo ref your 1st point, sorry, your blog is not popular enough for me to have considered referring to it in my post."

A personal attack? Gimme a break, Slappy. That's a pretty feeble attempt at countering an argument.

BTW, the quote was from the UAE COMMUNITY BLOG on June 24th.

i*maginate said...

SD, I find your comment in para 4 totally hypocritical, that is, if it's your "blogging" identity writing. First, you leave a comment on my post here, implying you want to "debate" with me, and minutes later you announce on your blog that I am incapable of debating and censor my comments.

To then specifically address me in a second comment here is very hypocritical. And I will be the judge of whether I'm digging myself into a hole or not, and whether it's time to change subjects. Last time I checked, you didn't receive my comments too well when I implied dissatisfaction with your blog subjects, that too, with a couple of swear words thrown at me.

Secondly, it's double standards to allow "personal insults" to ME in this post, but delete insults to YOU in the same post.

Now, if this is SD the "blog administrator" commenting, it is quite absurd to state you'd like to to enter into a debate with me "to add to the debate: imaginate", then say: "You made a very silly post, you have failed to defend your arguments, and you would do best to shut up and move on to a different subject..."

Could you please clarify, as an administrator, if I have breached your rules & regulations by way of this post? If so, which?

"you would do best to shut up" - is that a colourful opinion as SD, or a friendly request as an administrator?

"you have failed to defend your arguments" - if, after explaining why, I fail to adopt other's views, I should "shut up"?

ShaggyRed said...

I still see anon-comments made about Sam and SD here, so I wouldn't say either of them have had double-standards in what anonymous commentary they've removed.

As for the debate, if you read over everything and ignore the IDs, you'll find there isn't much of one. People have opinions on many things, and for someone to mention all of them every time they post about something, is the crux of the matter (as far as I have interpreted) and that, is not only unreasonable, but also tedious in commentary.

Perhaps best to agree to disagree at this point and leave combative comments out of other people's blogs?

i*maginate said...

Anon above, please take a little trip down to my blog, I'm about to post something you might be interested in commenting on.

SD, you say "If all you're going to is write anonymous insults directed at people, and not even bother to debate the issue, then you are not welcome here."

So that means bloggers who are *not* anonymous *can* "write insults directed at people"?

"Then you are a fucking dolt" from sam constitutes an insult. I could have responded to a comment more civilised, as I have done with brn, nick, dxbluey et al.

Hatem said...

I fully support i*maginate. She has a valid point and I am 100% on her side!
On the other hand, I don't find it bizarre to see the insults from secretdubai and sam. This is their usual language in their everyday conversation.

Anonymous said...

Good job i*maginate, using the UAE Community Blog, as a platform for your own benefit.

I presume, you’re an expat here like everybody else. Being one, I’m sure you’re aware of the violations & double standards in place. So, why should you take it personally when anybody criticizes those violations & double standards? Do they not affect you, your friends or anybody close to you?

If your answer is yes, then you should accept the criticism that flows here and work to make this a better place to live & work in?

If your answer is no, then I’d hate to say this but you’re living in a fool’s paradise.

Criticism, propaganda and whatever else is part of a globalization wave that’s about to hit this place, much sooner than you expect. So, why not lend your force to this wave?

Before you invite me over to your blog, I’ve been there but have found nothing of significance, as yet.

Maybe, after this pep talk, you’d give me a reason to post a comment.

P.S.: No offense intended with this comment, just a request to let wisdom prevail!

i*maginate said...

"I’m sure you’re aware of the violations & double standards in place. So, why should you take it personally when anybody criticizes those violations & double standards?"

Anon, are you the same anon who's posted at 20:13? If so, your latest comment contradicts the rest of your comments - more than one, if I'm not wrong. No offence intended but shouldn't you follow your own lessons before giving somebody else a "pep talk"? Why are you personally offended in your comments then? I'd be surprised if you're the same anon.

Thanks, Hatem =)

Anonymous said...

Anon, are you the same anon who's posted at 20:13?

Sorry, but I'm not the one that posted at 20:13. This is my first comment on this post.

Anonymous said...

This is classic!

2 admins getting owned hahahaha

What goes around...comes around.

And please stop the acting and the labourer BS story, if you really have any feelings for them, then why don't you donate 500dhm from your own salary every month WHICH WILL NEVER HAPPEN)?

i*maginate said...

Anon 22:33, that explains it, thanks for the clarification. The Anon I was specifically referring to in the comment "visit my blog" was anon @ 20:13, and, I presume, the one above @ 22:43.

I think it would be respectful if I postponed the privelege of any further "debating" until the blog administrator, SD, clarifies my comment to her: I've been advised to shut up re: my "arguments" and as a blog administrator, I'd have to respect her comment until she clarifies whether this is a rule or an opinion. I would very much like to "argue my response" to your comment fully once SD allows me to.

Anonymous said...

i*maginate: No worries. After all, Blog admin(s) is the boss here.

i*maginate said...

Yup ;)

samuraisam said...

“Then you are a fucking dolt" from sam constitutes an insult. I could have responded to a comment more civilised, as I have done with brn, nick, dxbluey et al.”

Excuse me? Fuck you.
You’re the one that pops in here and starts off by calling people hypocrites, what the fuck do you think that constitutes as? A fucking compliment?
I have it up to my fucking cranium with people that run around calling expats hypocrites, drunkards and whores and titling the responses as being the only insults; fuck that shit. It’s always the same crowd of tools running around spewing the same shit (I was really surprised to see Hatem here).

Anonymous @ 20:13: I wish I was a 9 year old too, because I’d be the one calling you a ‘hater’.

Hatem the retard: “This is their usual language in their everyday conversation.” Oh fucking really? You think I walk up to little children screaming expletives at the top of my lungs? You’re right! Us white-folk sure do enjoy swearing at each other for no particular reason.

Anonymous @ 22:43: “2 admins getting owned hahahaha” Really? Funny how the first 10 or so comments were completely clueless about what exactly the fucking intention of this stupid post was.

secretdubai said...

Could you please clarify, as an administrator, if I have breached your rules & regulations by way of this post? If so, which?

You haven't - which is why your post has been left open and none of your comments have been deleted.

"you would do best" is advice, not an order. My personal opinion is that you have made a fool of yourself with this post. But quite apart from what I think, the fact that you have really well-respected bloggers such as brn and dxbluey criticising it speaks volumes.

i*maginate said...

*sam, I'd really prefer not to respond to anything you've written simply because of the vile language you employ. One thing that appears as if it needs clarification in response to all your comments is that *your blog was nowhere in my mind* when I wrote this post. Perhaps all the anger and frustration because of paranoia? Yes, I was referring to "popular blogs" but yours was certainly not one I had in mind, even though it's popular.

*SD thanks for the clarification that it was "advice." I would also advise you not to give me any advice as it would quite unfair in you doing so freely here, when you have banned me from doing the same on your blog. As an administrator offering advice on making a fool of myself or not, I might have respected your "advice" if you would have considered my own comments by not censoring me.

*Anon 21:54, now what I wanted to say is what you do mean by "Good job i*maginate, using the UAE Community Blog, as a platform for your own benefit."? How? Please clarify.

"Criticism, propaganda and whatever else is part of a globalization wave that’s about to hit this place, much sooner than you expect. So, why not lend your force to this wave?"

"Criticism, propaganda" against the government is what I refer to, and disagree with. Pls read my comments above, I've already explained this.

"then you should accept the criticism that flows here" - Why should I? I respect the UAE and so should those who choose to live here - we can see who respects the UAE and who doesn't from their blogs.

With ref to your above point, it's funny how you say *I* should accept criticism of what *others* have to say, and many on this comment thread can't accept *my* crticism?

Anon I've already made all my points and you're asking me the same Q's that others have asked...

Anonymous said...

*Anon above, please take a little trip down to my blog, I'm about to post something you might be interested in commenting on.

This is a platform for propaganda, isn't it?

"Criticism, propaganda" against the government is what I refer to, and disagree with. Pls read my comments above, I've already explained this."

You sound so naïve if you thought, in the first place, the criticism, & propaganda was directed against the general population. Are you really so naïve?

"I respect the UAE and so should those who choose to live here."

So what does this make you? A Good Samaritan / Angel and everybody else the Devil? What gives you the right to judge me and others?

"With ref to your above point, it's funny how you say *I* should accept criticism of what *others* have to say, and many on this comment thread can't accept *my* crticism?"

Have you heard the term; majority counts?

To summarize, I would like to quote some words of a respected blogger here but I'll save that for a later occasion.

rosh said...

Hmmm so much debate on this topic?

Pardon, I have not read ALL comments, but did read some and the original post.

I think, i*maginate is saying the following:

(i) Salik costs us more monies
(ii) Salik shall cost the poor labourers more monies
(iii) Most people make a public out cry, individually, on Salik & labour issues (perhaps rightfully or otherwise)
(iv) Most people fail to "explicitly" acknowledge that labourers will be hard hit with Salik - i.e. will the transport companies or the labour supply firms, deduct charges for Salik from the labourer's paycheck? Is this an additional deduction we are looking at for the less fortunate? Reasons being – Salik deductions may not be as straight forward for these souls compared to those who drive their own vehicles?

From i*maginate's point of view, she sees complaints being raised to meet individual needs/concerns i.e. as per (i) & (iii) above - which (fairly or otherwise) does not portray UAE govt on a positive light.

However, it does not seem most folks are giving in a complete 360 degree feedback - because point iv above is not implied anywhere?

Point being, if someone is concerned about Salik costs and labourers – would one not have raised point iv? To those who are sentimental about their nation, it comes across as "cherry picking" on complaints/issues.

That’s my assessment – and please spare the expletives!

secretdubai said...

I don't really regard Salik as a specific issue for labourers. They travel en masse, and there are few labourer buses that will pass both gates each way both days. Apart from Jumeirah Beach Residence (and I am not sure where most construction workers on that would live - if the live to the South or East then they wouldn't pass a toll gate) many major construction sites do not require access by SZR. Eg many Palm workers live on the Palm, they are often situated close to their work sites. Those in Sonapur may face problems though.

With Salik I am more concerned about ulta-low paid white collar Asian expat workers who commute between Sharjah and Jebel Ali (ie somewhere along this route, not necessarily between those two destinations). They are the ones that face an enormous new tax. Up to Dh400 a month - which on a salary of possibly Dh2000 to Dh3000 a month is a hell of a lot of money. That is what cab drivers/PROs/"office boys"/clerks earn here. Dh400 is likely the difference between their kids back in India/Pakistan getting edcuated or not. And as most of them came here to give their kids an education, it seems particularly harsh.

So they are the ones I feel most for, because they are trapped in Sharjah/further flung areas due to the soaring rents in Dubai, and now they face this huge additional charge. I hope some will be able to car pool, but it is still heavy toll.

Anonymous said...

No more Cake Recipes to share with Infidels or a first sign of panic.

i*maginate said...

Anon 00:45 I said: "With ref to your above point, it's funny how you say *I* should accept criticism of what *others* have to say, and many on this comment thread can't accept *my* crticism?"

You said: "Have you heard the term; majority counts?"

Yes, that term does sound familiar. We live in the UAE, and the government's opinion is what counts. So accept it if you want to live here. I support the government (in case you didn't notice) so I have every right to voice my opinion in support of them.

We don't live in a democracy, so no, the "majority" doesn't count.

I see it could be convenient to label my arguments as "naive" but I might have the same arguments as you in a democracy.

*rosh, you're brave commenting on here. I do suggest you read through all the comments. You are spot on with your interpretation of my post, and I wish others could have seen it that way instead of the swear words & some patronising remarks!

*SD, I wish you would have shared your point of view earlier on.

Now that you have, I would like to "add to the debate". The extra money issue is a point. As for the labour bus routes, pre-Salik there were plenty on SZR. Post-Salik, many have started to join the huge jams on the "last free exit" roads before the toll gates. This is the first thing I noticed, and I felt really sorry not only for all those trying to escape the tolls and stuck in the jams, but also those labourers who are physically exhausted and have an even longer journey home.

Labourers do not make up the majority of the population.

If we're talking about a minority of the population "suffering", there are many more out there not living within their means and not being able to send enough cash "back home". These people (waitresses, clerks, a LOT of people!) need "low-income" housing. Shouldn't people who really CARE about the MAJORITY of people notice this and perhaps...WRITE about it? Anyone care to respond?

*anon 08:16 I can see how angry you are and why, and I can see you know how to communicate well! Please could you not be so crude in your comments ie fart etc and pick on anybody's nationality? If you use different words it might get your message across in a better way and not cause any offence to the admins (and others). Even if they have caused you offence, you don't need to use those kinds of phrases. Please. Thanks!

samuraisam said...

i*maginate: Don’t fucking dilly-dally around and try and address me like I’m your 9 year old anonymous friend; you meant to say bloggers who write about labourers are only pretending to give a shit, you mocked the sympathy people have for labourers and now you have to deal with the people you just mocked. You don’t know neither head nor tail of what people here care about because you’re reading their words on the fucking internet; don’t try and act like you can read people’s minds through a few paragraphs and automatically dismiss what they care about and what they don’t. Don’t try to indirectly accuse me of being narcissistic, don’t try and play any fucking reverse psychology head-fuck games either, you’re the one running around calling every complainer a fucking hypocrite, you don’t get to choose to whom your accusations apply, you wrote something publicly which a few thousand people have read, and what for? What the fuck is this supposed to represent? It’s a poorly-masqueraded attempt to cause a shit fight because you have fuck all to do and you think there is some benefit to assuming the unclaimed title of patriarchal bitch around here, there isn’t. Find something better to do.

anonymous @ 8:16: fuck off.

ShaggyRed said...

"Shouldn't people who really CARE about the MAJORITY of people notice this and perhaps...WRITE about it? Anyone care to respond?"

Unless you've read every UAE-centred blog on the internet, how do you know that they haven't?

I agree that the UAE is not a democracy, and is a more liberal monarchy/police state. Note, that isn't said as a derogatory remark. It's the fact of what the government is - a government that has done amazing things, but is also not being held accountable for many things that it is not doing right, or fails to push ahead as quickly as it does building approvals, or tourism.

There needs to be a balance, regardless of who is in charge. There also needs to be transparency on key issues. People would be more readily accepting of problems in a growing country, if they were not treated like 6year olds and basically lied to. The government denies poignant issues - like the sex trade industry - unless it hurts their international image - like the Florida camel jockey case.

Why, for example are official HRW reports on labourers considered 'inconclusive' by the ministry, yet UNICEF's opinion on the compensation fund for camel jockeys is relevant?

Corruption and double-standards affect every government in the world. The UAE is no different.

rosh said...

Please calm down Sam - it's just a debate, fruitful or otherwise. i*maginate has a right to express her opinion even though her views differ from yours and everyone else's.

Please spare the language in almost every post - you are addressing a lady in a public forum, to say the least!

Anonymous said...

Rosh, please stop playing peacemaker, nice guy unless Blog Admin here has appointed you Peacemaker and given you the permission to speak on their behalf.

One minute, you’re somewhere saying ‘You are FREE to voice your opinions girl - don't let anyone tell you otherwise! People can respectfully agree to disagree.’ And then you’re here telling someone to calm down and spare the language. Why are we not FREE to voice our opinions in any way we deem right?

Hundreds of people have read this post not having a clue what it means, yet only you and some trouble makers can smell the essence of this post.

Are you telling us that you’re some sort of a whiz kid and every one else is dumb?

What exactly are you trying to achieve here?

rosh said...

oAnon 18:45 - "People can respectfully agree to disagree."

Hopefully you read and more importantly "understood" the phrase!

Never claimed to be "appointed" - am not speaking on anyone's behalf (?) and neither did I "ask" for your advice?

I think we can all agree to disagree without being derogatory to someone more than once in the same post. And that is not asking too much in terms of civility, is it? Derogatory was one issue why comments have been moderated multiple times on this blog.

"Hundreds of people have read this post not having a clue what it means, yet only you and some trouble makers can smell the essence of this post."

If you did not understand the post - perhaps that is your limitation. I have explained it the way I understand what i*maginate was trying to say? What is wrong with that? Must I "agree" with you to appease you?

Please take your self serving talk elsewhere or let us debate with some civility (am not calling for Mary Poppins or Mother Teresa).

i, bozo (name says it all) said...

Quote of the day:

"I support the Government...so I have every right to voice my opinion in suppport of them."

Inference of the day: "You don't agree with some things the Government does, so you have no right to voice your opinion on those matters."

(This is the new, improved version of freedom of expression that we folks have been practising for centuries, long before George Washington came along.)

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