29 April, 2007

demographic issues..

its been a while since i last posted but this is a topic that strongly demonstrates my reason for joining the forum as an israeli who doesnt even live in the UAE..

demographics is a key issue on our side of the middle east.. be it the fear of yaffo's palestinians that jews are swamping the old town's formerly arab quarters sanctioned by municipal policies or be through jews concerned that the relentless bedouin birth rate will create a whole new population balance issue down south that has yet to be confronted..

everyone wants to be a majority around here (except the christians who seem to be content with their predicament..)

i now turn to this forum to ask you for your views about the UAE.. in a heated debate on this topic i made reference to the way the UAE seems to respond to its demographic changes with the percentage of foreigners appearing to fluctuate - whether they are foreign laborers or sophisticated expats.. in my mind pondering how some have complained in the past that muslim and arab issues seem to receive less interest even though this is a blog for people connected to the united ARAB emirates..

appreciative of your views especially in relation to how demography impacts the way of life in the UAE today and what hopes fears concerns you have for the future..

grateful in advance for the insite..
lirun

86 comments:

Anonymous said...

No relation between the UAE and Israel. Israel kicked most of the natives and establish itself as a state while the UAE try to survive with its native and not naturalize expatriates

Simple as it is.

DUBAI JAZZ said...

There is no way to compare demographics of the Zionist state with those of the UAEs (or any other state as far as I am concerned). For a start, the UAE has never decimated its native residents.

I am wondering though, apart from the sugar-coated comparison inquiries, what is this guy here for? and for the moderators who maintain a very strict posting policy and never hesitate to bash (and zap) anyone who veers off: what's your take on this post?

Anonymous said...

I think that there was a plan to make the Emirates the biggest minority. That's by decreasing the percentage of south Asians and increasing the number of Arabs, Africans and Asians.

Arabs have a priority according to the law but it isn't applied in practice. I personally think that they should be favored because they are the closest to our culture.

Our identity is not a questionable issue. We are Muslims and then Arabs and that what represent our country.

Anonymous said...

the presence of this guy it is an open provocation
you don't allow a blessing in tragedy here and you allow this guy here.....what a big contradiction

samuraisam said...

dubai jazz: Lirun hasn’t broken any rules as far as I’m aware; this site has no obligation to be pro/anti anything.
The main point of the policy is to curb irrelevence; this post
is asking a clear question regarding the UAE. Why should it be removed?

anonymous @ 01:06:
How exactly is Lirun a 'provocation'?
Your views determine he is a provocation; the same views that equate Lirun (someone who is posting something of intelligence regarding the UAE) to someone who posted hardcore pornography and threatened to slash people's faces with rusty razor blades and rape 9 year olds. How exactly is that a contradiction?

Just remember for every person that thinks every Arab flies planes into towers there is an Arab who thinks Jews run around each year killing Palestinians and draining their blood into cake to eat… hopefully by having Lirun around everyone can learn a thing or two.

Does anyone think it is actually feasible to make UAE national’s the majority demographic in the next 10 years? Keep in mind that would mean something like 70-80% of today’s population would be gone; all the business that thrives from the current population size would likely be dead.

secretdubai said...

As I am the person who invited Lirun to this community, I will explain (again) the reasons why.

Firstly Lirun showed a clear, constructive and peaceful interest in the UAE and its blogging community. He was genuinely interested in learning about people here. Therefore he qualified for membership under the original tenets of this community.

Secondly, I had at that time been weighed down with a sense of growing despair and anger at the ongoing violence and hatred in the region. I was in a state of extreme loathing towards Israel, and to a lesser extent, at the senseless violence and lack of peacemaking ability on the Arab side.

Lirun was a ray of hope for me and a reminder of Israel's human face. He gives me hope that one day there will be enough others like him that will help create a Palestinian state as well as give full rights and equality within Israel to Israeli-born Arabs.

Whatever people here may hope, Israel isn't going away. And I would rather see peace - whatever compromises on both sides that it may take - than more generations of Palestinian children growing up in deprived, war-torn slums.

So those that can only respond to Lirun with hatred and hostility, ask yourselves what you are gaining by that.

Lirun said...

wow.. i apologise for creating a stir.. and thank you secret dubai and samuraisam for the support and assisting to outline the relevance..

perhaps i should clarify that i am not trying to draw spikey comparisons.. nor am i aiming to manipulatively extract pre-determined conclusions..

i merely inquiring as to the sentiment..

i had detected that people were at times feeling that the UAE had changed a lot since modernisation.. with some people appearing so nostalgic that i couldnt tell if it was just romantic or a cultural and/or political statement..

to be honest.. i marvel at the tolerance i have noticed.. including of the moderators.. and - if anything - seek to learn and take back a message to that effect..

having said that - i didnt want to speak on anyone's behalf without putting my question forward.. because even though i have been following this blog for a year - i certainly dont claim to be an expert on UAE matters..

if anyone is suspicious as to the nature of my intrigue i cordially and unapologetically invite you to visit my blog and assess for yourself..

wishing you all a great week in the meantime.. and on a larger note - definitely peace and tranquility for our region.. including my palestinian neighbours whether or not they are citizens of israel..

lirun

Anonymous said...

including my palestinian neighbours whether or not they are citizens of israel..

well...this, it is another provocation
samuraisam you are an expat and it is nice what you say ....but this guy knows that his presence is an open provocation to muslims and arabs, so, it is not necessary for him to write here... he knows that he will provoke these kind of feelings...

N. said...

wohoo another UAE vs. Israel post, I haven't seen this for a while!

N. said...

by the way, this confirms my theory that people are racists by default. I mean the guy talked about UAE demographics but he insisted to mention his country, (ethnocentrism + racism= future)

Lirun said...

what?!?!

goodness.. i am all for a prosperous palestinian state.. seriously people.. my post was a post about UAE.. i am curious about you guys.. your thoughts.. why make this post bigger than it is.. i mentioned that i am from israel not to provoke but rather to lay down the fact that i am clueless and seeking your insite..

describing palestinians is not easy.. i can explain.. wow im not sure why this discourse needs to be so apologetic.. or even so cautious when my intentions are clear and transparent but anyway.. people in this tiny strip of land that i live in are very particular about how they define their identity.. many people that are generally referred to as "israeli arabs" detest this term - they find it an insult calling themselves arabs of 1948.. others are proud.. you seriously never know.. and there is probably nothing i can say that wont offend someone somehow..

unless people can accept that it is not intended to.. that i am not judging anyone and that i dont have a hidden agenda..

maybe then people can actually consider my questions..

honestly i was expecting to hear stuff like..

(a) we have seen an influx of additional elements fuse into our culture; or

(b) our laws have had to adapt to accommodate for other populations' habits; or

(c)maybe immigration policies have changed

i honestly have no idea.. i was just asking..

if it is really that offensive i wont be insulted if it removed.. not my intention to stir things..

:)

im not racist at all

John B. Chilton said...

Following the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait and the ensuing positive reaction of some Arab ex pats in the Gulf to that invasion, all Arab Gulf countries have rebalanced their ex pat labor force away from Arab ex pats and more towards South Asians. South Asians are viewed as less likely to create a local political stir, and if they do can be treated more harshly without causing regional tensions.

The UAE addressed its own Palestinian problem by raising the immigration wall and by pouring more money into the Palestinian economy.

dxb hack said...

Nice to see some people actively looking for offence to be taken...and they reckon there will never be peace huh :-)

poo said...

Somehow I have to agree with what John pointed out above. Even thought the UAE labor law states that Where National workers are not available, preference in employment shall be given to:

1- Workers of other Arab nationalities.

2- Workers of other nationalities.
[ Chapter II, Section I, Article 10 ]

This is not practiced, because quite a few Arab citizens are seen as political troublemakers by the GCC governments.

A high number of extremely talented people graduate on campuses all around the middle east, but they don't make it to the GCC because of restrictions on the number of citizens allowed in each year.

Another reason is that every foreigner in the UAE/GCC has been officially categorized as a ,"temporary Worker". Its a lot easier for the government to kick out the non-believers from the east and west, than fellow Arabs who also happen to be Muslims.

Expecting to be flamed by anon posters

rosh said...

Lirun - don't take the anons personally. Some just love to be vile for the pure joy. It speaks volumes about character and lack of insight, and on any sort of reconciliation. Sam & SD - well said, couldn't agree more.

Re: demographics - a whole lot can be said, however personally I feel the fundamental difference lies in the fact UAE (by nature of it's immigration & naturalization laws) acts as a transit point for the large majority of expat community. I know of hundreds who’ve moved into this country and subsequently moved on elsewhere permanently (like a friend who has lived in the UAE for the past 5 years, is moving this weekend to Melbourne).

The "native" expats who've been here for 3 to 4 decades are either retired and have moved to their home countries or (there are a minority) who continue to stay with zero post retirement assistance ( don’t know how someone can just move on after 30 to 40 years – I mean retirement is hard enough a transition as is?).

There are 2nd/3rd generation off-springs – who know this place as home second to none, who’ve lived their entire lives in the UAE – are denied any sort of acceptance in the nation i.e. we are treated pretty much as an expat who’ve moved into the UAE say, yesterday.

There is the rare, few & far between naturalization of selected expats. I personally know of a few – but then this is not a full fledged movement and seems sort of hush hush?

Looking back 25 - 30 years – I think there is perhaps more tolerance to the larger expat cultures, not that there wasn’t any before, but we just didn’t have such variety and volume.

I also feel the Emi population have evolved much more today i.e. in terms of education, are more worldly and aware of their country & the globe today than the fewer back then (not that times were bad then - I am someone who prefer the older UAE).

I think the demographics in the next few decades shall pretty much have a similar trail i.e. Emi’s shall be a minority, however shall continue to grow in terms of education and more acceptance. Perhaps a lot more influx of the elite Arab expats, EU, South African etc , however it shall be a similar cycle for such i.e. people shall move in – people shall move out. Am not sure how long this is sustainable for any nation though?

Mubarak said...

Quiet absurd entry!! this is like comparing apple to tobaco. The state of Israel is an artificial entity established on confiscated land. the artificial Israel is simply built on the expense of confiscated Palestine or Falasteen.

They borought people to this artificial state from all over the world and displaced the original inhabitants; in fact the original people of the land i.e the plaestinians were driven out forcefully; and they have been living as refugees in desparate state for decades.

In the UAE people were naturalized but not on the expense of the lacals. In UAE we have people of all different part of the world but again not on the expense of the citizens of the country.

And to SD you said:
"Lirun was a ray of hope for me and a reminder of Israel's human face. "
Is driving people out their land human?
Is killing women and children human?

Call me said...

mubarak @ 10:05

The state of Israel is an artificial entity established on confiscated land

Its funny, you point that out. Ever notice that most artificial countries have borders which are straight lines? As if they were drawn on a map with a ruler?

secretdubai said...

Quiet absurd entry!! this is like comparing apple to tobaco. The state of Israel is an artificial entity established on confiscated land. the artificial Israel is simply built on the expense of confiscated Palestine or Falasteen.

Yes - but however illegally and artificially it was created - we are stuck with it at least for the next few decades/hundred years.

In that time unless Arabs and Muslims like you grow up and start acting like pragmatic adults rather than wailing children, things will never improve for the Palestinians.

The only way you can deal with the might of Israel/US is through peaceful, diplomatic process. That means presenting yourselves as something other than ranting, angry, racist people.

Stop being so fucking selfish about your own sense of grievance and resentment and wounded Arab pride and start actually thinking constructively about the Palestinians for a change, rather than "wah! wah! wah! it's so illegal we won't talk we won't negotiate".

There are children dying out there. Grow up and start thinking about them rather than yourself for a change.

Anonymous said...

There are two types of posters here. Either Emirate, Arabs and muslims or other expatriats. The ones who supported you Lirun are no where from that type therefore it doesnt represent the United Arab Emirates in anyway.

Would u consider giving Jerusalem back? Would u accept the just right for the refugees to go back to the villages they have been kicked in 1948? I dont think so !! I am for a binational state where they live together but with the Arabs being a majorty as they have always been. Would u accept that? I dont think so. So dont try to look like the tolerant guy who came here to teach us how to behave.

samuraisam said...

Ok.

THIS IS NOT A PALESTINE/ISRAEL DISCUSSION. IT IS A DISCUSSION ABOUT THE UAE.

any more off-topic posts will be permanently deleted without warning.

rosh said...

Mubarak 10:05 - you've taken SD's initial comments and presented 'em waaaaaaay out of context. Did you even read her initial post entirely - think not?

Anon 10:53 - nobody is SUPPORTING anybody. This is a discussion on demographics of the UAE! Where the hell did you come up with "support" - shows you read squat of the comments or the original post.

Anonymous said...

Sorry for hijacking this post... but would just like someone to post about this news:

Ex-Dubai festival chief to sue

It's puting the DIFF and Dubai in bad light:

"Claiming that he could not get fair press in Dubai, he spoke on Tuesday to Egypt media..."

"I fear that the Dubai festival will lose its distinctive theme of 'building cultural bridges' to become a more commercialized festival under Juma, with the focus only on big stars and profits. I plan to speak about DIFF at various festivals in the coming months."

Anonymous said...

Back to stuff thats more related to the topic.

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More info is available at Tedad 2005

Mubarak said...

Call me 10:38
I agree 100% those straight line borders are artificial; they are not supposed to be there anyway!

SD:
this is has nothing to do with us arab growing up or being pragmatic adults as u were saying. It is simply about FACTS. its about legitimacy by which civilized humans are supposed to abide.

So if u cannot debate the facts, at least watch ur language. Sorry I cannot talk obscenity, especially to a lady, like u just did. I still respect u even if I differ with u.

mubarak said...

And One more thing SD:

To do something constructive for the palestinians:how about setting them free; letting them live under no occupation.

Regarding those dying out children: who is killing them?

Keefieboy said...

Back to demographics: my thoughts

Anonymous said...

ok, it 's true, the post it is not about palestinias- israel
but the fact it is the procation that this guy is posting here in a blog-place, although full of not arabs muslims, and with a moderator not an arab, but at least in a arab country, so, if the only support that this guy has is from expats, why provoke us writing here? he can write in another place not in a arab country, samurai sam and the athers are so kind and well polite inviting here, but it is not you, it is him, stop proking us, what is trying to prove here? what if some of the muslims posting here write like him in a blog of israel
you can allow or not , but it is about him, be compasive an dont proke us

kochumanavalan said...

hbyMubarak:

Lirun is not here as a representative of the State of Israel, with the authority to "give back" Jerusalem, etc. He couldn't do that even if he wanted to!

He is here merely as an individual from another country, who has evinced a keen, healthy, inquisitive interest in the UAE, it's people, residents and society. Seeing his genuine interest, and the opportunity for peaceful, open-minded cross-communication, he was invited by SD to become a member of this online community.

From what I read of his post, he was not seeking to make any comparisons. He was simply inquiring about social balances in the UAE, given the large number of expatriates and its multiculturalism. He prefaced his request by giving an example about his own country, Israel.

I hope I have helped in some way to clarify the matter.

P.S.: You may not like to hear this, but it is my belief that when a person hates another person simply because of his ethnic origin or nationality, it's called "racism".

Best regards.

Lirun said...

anon 11.31

i wont learn much about you if i dont communicate with you.. all i will learn is the stereotypes.. i dont know that such education serves either of us.. hence confining myself to israeli blogs seems like an unuseful choice..

my blog is frequented by people from all faiths and backgrounds and i too encounter comments that appear provocative.. but my experience would indicate that provocations are normally much more explicit.. if i wanted to be offensive there would be no doubt in anyone's mind and my membership would not have survived any such act..

i can tell you whole heartedly that i have made friends from this blog with emiratis who are muslim and who at first gave me a hard time.. not tons but a solid handful.. for that i am grateful.. some of them no longer blog but still write to me..

i have gained so many surprising and enlightening facts on your world that i could never have imagined.. the most important of which is that our divide is portrayed to be much bigger than it is..

my personal view - acknowledging that it is way off topic (but it appears hard for me to post without generating some sort of a resistance) is that the only thing standing between us and full peace is the mindset of people who prefer to maintain a status quo of disagreement.. which is natural and comfortable.. i dont blame them.. i just wish they would get to know me as an individual and realise through this acquaintance that there are good people everywhere.. and that supporting them is a preferred approach over punishing them for the actions of those you genuinely passionately disagree with.. rather than preaching to the converted so to speak..

on the front of helping kids.. well as correctly identified - i am just one person.. i am proud to say that the company i work for encourages a lot of community work.. over 10% of our staff do volunteer work - which to my mind is huge!! and one of our projects involves helping kids from a mixed arab and jewish hostel for children.. whereby the company puts in real dollars and employees put in real time of their very own to help out and support.. i personally partake in a different work-sponsored project which involves sailing with poor kids from our neighborhood.. but as an aside i have actively befriended the kids in my neighbourhood - both jewish and arab and support them fully in fostering friendships and bonds..

i thank the members who posted the comments with opinions directly on point.. very interesting indeed.. especially the statistics..

Anonymous said...

still i think that it is a provocation your presence here, and you know that, and you enjoy that
you have a big ego
all the time you are talking and talking about yourself
it is the first time that you have these amount of entries in a post from you here in this place, so, you are happy isnt it?/
and this it is just thanks of your provocation

Lirun said...

no matey - while the size of my ego is debatable :D this is not the first time a post generates discussion - it normally happens..

i dont enjoy the adverse attention.. i would much prefer to hear your views on the topic than be personally attacked.. i think if you go through the archives you'll see i rarely post for this very reason..

while i read the blog everyday - i avoid commenting unless i think its of any value to the posting member because i acknowledge that my presence offends some people..

rosh said...

OMG Anon 15:18 please stop - have mercy, you are making an idiot of yourself :)

lol Lirun - I know one such Emi who gave you a hard time in loads. Man I miss that blog tons -it was unique.

Mubarak said...

kochuman, u said: "You may not like to hear this, but it is my belief that when a person hates another person simply because of his ethnic origin or nationality, it's called "racism".

what gave u the impression I hate lirun? can u single out one sentence in my replies that support ur conclusion?

I just disagree with his/her comparison which indicates some kind of political views! is that not allowed here?

So if I disagree with an israeli citizen, I am a racist! Disagree with Iranian: I have the right to express my opinion!!!!!

Antisemitism phobia????? wow even on this blog which mostly discusses labours issues and construction boom in Dubai, you have to be politically correct!!!

Strange some self imposed restrictions by some people on their thoughts, I feel sometimes they cannot even breathe!!

N. said...

"You may not like to hear this, but it is my belief that when a person hates another person simply because of his ethnic origin or nationality, it's called "racism"."

Yeah, what do you mean about that? do you think we are antisemitic? we just didn't like the way Lirin asked the question. I mean it is like going to California for a labor protest rally and then you shout protesting labor laws in UAE. The guy apparently is ethnocentric which is a subset of racism.

Lirun said...

rosh - yes it was :)

secretdubai said...

And One more thing SD:

To do something constructive for the palestinians:how about setting them free; letting them live under no occupation.


Mubarak I don't disagree with you. And believe me when I say that I do understand where the anger comes from. I even share it.

I just think that the only way forward is for both sides to make difficult sacrifices, because no one is going to "set the Palestinians free" (much as we all would like it).

And to attack or be hostile to someone like Lirun who had no choice about his race or religion or nationality, and is doing all he can in his own way to support and promote peace, just seems absurd.

You can disagree with his views by all means. But to dismiss him on the basis of his race and religion is racist. I don't know about you guys, but I don't want to be like racist Israelis and racist Americans that judge people negatively on the base of their religion/ethnicity.

Just because you are an Arab muslim, doesn't mean you are a terrorist. Just because Lirun is Israeli, doesn't mean he is a racist oppressor.

Anonymous said...

it is not about how is Lirun or not
it is not matter of his faith or his religion
it is just his presence here what it is strange
ok, he was invited
but it is about a common sense, we dont accept every invitations that we receive
I can make myself idiot as Rosh said, but ....still i believe he is provocating this situation, i dont feel that he is a peace maker posting here, it is like puting an israeli flag in the middle of Dubai
come on, it is not so rare what i express...and it is just an opinion, and my feelings, now he can offended by muslim feelings toward him, and what about our opinions

N. said...

"And to attack or be hostile to someone like Lirun who had no choice about his race or religion or nationality, and is doing all he can in his own way to support and promote peace, just seems absurd."

What you are saying Secret-Dubai is absurd. First, of all, why did you invite him to post? and now you defend him!

N. said...

Follow up, Secret Dubai, you were not going to invite him if he wasn't from Israel?

kochumanavalan said...

To those who were offended by my simple description of racism: please take it as a generic statement (which it is).

Now what shall I say about "jumping to conclusions"?

Wondering aloud: they call it common sense...yet it doesn't seem very common...

And yes, to be even more "politically incorrect": the blind hatred is chillingly palpable.

Emirati said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Gautam said...

Ok FELLA's...

First of all there is no reason to be upset at Lirun, be offended by what he states or have his post removed...!! I see the post as being a completely eligible one and the bottom line is the bloke is just asking a QUESTION...!!! And those who are interested to help..can do so by providing an ANSWER...!! They taught me that in school..!!!

"....how demography impacts the way of life in the UAE today and what hopes fears concerns you have for the future...."

I have talked about this or at least with similar reference to it in one of my previous posts : http://gautamjgoesplaces.blogspot.com/2006/08/dubai-mid-western-culture.html

One of the major concerns particularly with the varying range of nationalities(one of the noticeably prime demographics) present within the expatriate community in UAE is that of the role played by 'STEREOTYPING'..every individual is different and we accept that...but it would really difficult to understand each one of them ..so hence Stereotyping plays a major role. Some of the stereotypes held within UAE are Filipino's no matter how qualified they are can only be seen as service Staff at fast food outlets,etc. Or Asians have lower salaries then the rest. These are obviously not true...because there are enough cases where you can see Filipino's with higher position jobs and Asians with higher salaries....!!

Ideas like these then lead to racism or conflict. But in recent years things have changed and for the good....stereotype ideas and thrashed...!!

That is my view on how the demographics have played a major role in UAE's population. Hope the rest will do the same and ANSWER THE QUESTION..!!

:-)

Alisha said...

what's that game called where you're supposed to add a word or phrase to a sentence and everyone keeps on doing it in turns, until you finally forget what it was all about in the first place? Oh that's right, it's "comments to this post"

DUBAI JAZZ said...

SD said:
In that time unless Arabs and Muslims like you grow up and start acting like pragmatic adults rather than wailing children, things will never improve for the Palestinians.
 
This exactly what I am calling for, a little bit of pragmatism, let's have a truce with the Zionists until such time we're stronger, we'll then wipe them off the map....how about that for pragmatism?
History taught us that super powers didn't use contraceptives between the WWI and WWII, the pregnancy with the infamous child 'Israel' has then ensued. This rowdy spoilt kid is a malignant tumor and it is going to be eradicated or diluted (which seems to be the concern of 'Lirun') sooner or later.
Come to think of it, the powers that are keeping 'Israel' firm in its place might diminish one day.
What it's going to save it from its doom then?
Anyway....we can sit here and opine about this forever....let's just move on...

Lirun said...

Gautam - thank you for the link.. ill go and read your views..

DB - honestly.. its not my concern..

there are a lot of ways i could answer your last comment.. but i think i'll choose to say that the point of this post was merely to learn about how the UAE reflects on its demographic transformations..

i have watched many other places..

it so happens that the UAE intrigues me in particular (a) because its in the same region more or less (b) because it shares a success story.. while it may not be flawless it still attracts talented and good people and that to me says something.. i have several friends from other regions who have moved there for professional/lifestyle reasons and have had a great time.. (c) because it tells a story of modernism and moderation at a time when the turks stage a 300,000 people rally to fence in secularism and other countries in our region see other challenging interfaces between religion and secularism.. we have it here too.. demographics is not just about people of different nationalities.. it is also about people of varying wealth and of different subcultures.. perhaps i should have stressed this more in the post.. the study of demographics and social gaps can exist at so many levels and so many posts on this blog have dealt with specific aspects before..

despite you - dubai jazz - i seriously look to your part of our region with hope.. you have the privilege of knowing that you are exceptional to my view of people from your home.. most of whom have been overwhelmingly welcoming and at the very least fair minded enough to listen and share..

while i respect your passion and particularly your compassion for the pain of the palestinian people.. i dont know that i respect your careless use of the cancer metaphor..

anyway.. maybe thats enough excitement for one post..

wishing you all a pleasant week..

:)

localexpat said...

firstly,

I feel I should apologise on behalf of the people of this country who lashed out at you for no fault of your own other than your ethnicity( some people call that being racist).I honestly don't blame them for I, a product of the educational system of Dubai, was also brainwashed into think that all jews are the scum of the earth and more importantly, not being able to differentiate between a jew and a zionist.

On to your question...

I personally believe that the biggest effect this demographic issue will have is on the entire residency/sponsorship system of the UAE. I don't believe the current system can be maintained in the long run. I believe( or more likely hope) that a naturalisation process will be implemented as one of the ways to address this overwhelming imbalance.

There is also the question of the UAE's identity.

The effect it has on the present situation is very simple: stereotyping , racism and segregation.
None of which are being address by the government in any way.



My biggest fear: a war will take place and then this country will not only realise that its native population is ridiculously small, but also the number of people from the local community who not will take up arms to defend this land and return to the ethic countries they originated from. More importantly, I think they will be surprised at the number of 'localexpats' that will stand up and fight.

I have my entire blog dedicated to this issue and it might give you some further insight

I hope these answers help your question.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
samuraisam said...

anonymous: This isn't a free blog. Go away.

Anonymous said...

so free of speech is not allowed in blog

DUBAI JAZZ said...

Local Expat;
I don't have problems with Judaism, as it is the first monotheistic faith out there.... One of my best friends is an American Jew.. One of the best American journalists, as far as I am concerned, is Thomas L. Friedman, who's also a Jew. Another writer I like very much is Noam Chomsky...also a Jew....the list goes on...
I am only wondering, how could someone have peace of mind living in a 'state' where taxes are spent on a military apparatus that ensures Palestinian kids the most miserable of circumstances: with their tattered clothes and bare feet, deprived from education ....that is to say the least? I think those haunting images couldn't be dispelled just because somebody from the other side of the fence is flashing his beaux yeux over here?
I am not an Emarati, so I am not speaking on behalf of locals... perhaps next time this guy seriously look to my part of the region with hope he would be able to see his 'Early Alarm Base' smack-bang with impunity on the summit of MY Mount Hermon...
I don't even know why I writing again on this thread when I know quite well that the whole exchange is futile...

Apologies to the moderators for the so off-the-topic comment...

Salem said...

You have no right to talk in the name of us Localexpat especially if u were clueless.

Anonymous said...

localexpat the Quaran says that about the Jew , not the education system

Salem said...

One more thing, I have no problem with Jews as u suggested Mr. Foreign Expat who claim to know everything.

My problem is with the ones who are living on the expenses of others, those are the Zionist. I wouldnt mind if that make me racist because I am anti-zionism.

Lirun said...

thank you to all of those who have been friendly.. you are welcome to visit me on my blog..

www.emspeace.blogspot.com

with the wave of comments that this truly innocent post received - i dont think i can genuinely remain a part of this community..

i wish you all only peace happiness and health.. that remains the same..

;)

lirun

localexpat said...

Ahhh the insults :-)

None of you know him/her,
None of you know what he/she has done,
None of you know what his/her views and opinions are

What you know is that he/she is from Israel and that is all!

So based on this single fact( his nationality) how can you conclude that he is a zionist bent on the destruction of all arabs in palestine?
Why do you judge him for the actions of others?

If you apply the same logic to another individual who you assume is criminal/thief purely on the basis of him being black, would that not be considered being racist?

1)Let the person speak.
2)If you disagree with him/her, then you have the brain power to argue against him/her and hopefully prove your case
3) If he/she insults you then delete his comments
4) If he/she continues insulting you then block him from the blog

So far Lirun is only at stage one. Stop being so juvenile and give him/her a chance to speak people!!!

Anonymous said...

ok ok ok
after the provocation, what comes next?? min fadlik min fadlik stay here,stay with us...
what would you like to listen from us, or at least from me, an anonymous that sees JUST your presence here, not what you are, as a provocation

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

the arab world and muslims got punished for what bin laden did and he was one person too

Tim Newman said...

but this guy knows that his presence is an open provocation to muslims and arabs

His presence on the forum, or his presence on earth?

Tim Newman said...

Stop being so fucking selfish about your own sense of grievance and resentment and wounded Arab pride and start actually thinking constructively about the Palestinians for a change, rather than "wah! wah! wah! it's so illegal we won't talk we won't negotiate".

Well said.

Tim Newman said...

Regarding those dying out children: who is killing them?

I dunno. Let's take a look:

Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas condemned as an "ugly and inhuman crime" the killing of three young children of a senior PA intelligence official in a car outside their school in Gaza City Monday morning.

The driver of the vehicle, 25, was also killed in the drive-by shooting, in which Palestinian gunmen opened fire in a street crowded with hundreds of school children. It was an unprecedented attack that could ignite widespread factional fighting.


Seems as though Israelis are not the only ones killing Palestinian children, doesn't it? Or maybe you only show concern for those Palestinian children who are killed by Israelis?

Tim Newman said...

If Lirun is representative of an Israeli citizen, then he is acting as a wonderful ambassador to his country on this forum, being obviously intelligent, unfailingly polite, and expressing a genuine interest in discussion with everyone, regardless of their nationality or religion. Goodness, he can even spell!

By contrast, we get this:

but the fact it is the procation that this guy is posting here in a blog-place, although full of not arabs muslims, and with a moderator not an arab, but at least in a arab country, so, if the only support that this guy has is from expats, why provoke us writing here? he can write in another place not in a arab country, samurai sam and the athers are so kind and well polite inviting here, but it is not you, it is him, stop proking us, what is trying to prove here? what if some of the muslims posting here write like him in a blog of israel
you can allow or not , but it is about him, be compasive an dont proke us


Go figure.

N. said...

Local Expatriate:
"I feel I should apologize on behalf of the people of this country who lashed out at you for no fault of your own other than your ethnicity" huh?


Who are you to apologize?? what the heck, Gosh! Have you even read the comments? let me ask you something, why did we really get freaked out? It is because Lirun was comparing UAE and Israel (read his post above). We, people of the UAE, are not interested in their issues and don't like to be compared with anybody. This is not a match where the winner will get a prize.

Beside, people are lashing UAE all the time check Wikipedia ok!! I haven't heard anyone apologizing not even you for that.

Anonymous said...

Tim u are way out of line and you are not an Arab to understand our pain or what the quran says about the Jews , your British as i read in your profile , and we are not lashing at you for Iraq are we !!! the Jew are doing a genocide in the Palestine my dear sir a war doesn't stay for more than 50 years !! plus at the early years they refused peace and now they still refuse peace and refuse to go back to the line of 1948, plus no listens to us as citicizens , so why should we listen to him , what you want us to be happy that a guy from Iseral decided to join us and we have to be nice , he is a good "Ambassador " and we are not !!!, if you all lash at UAE why are u living in it and getting paid major money which you can't make in your own country !!! please don't bite the hand the feeds you and respect the country , culture and the people . let us if the this comment will be deleted or not , as i see Tim can use the word F...G, and lash at us like we are some kids and his comments were not removed .

Tim Newman said...

Tim u are way out of line and you are not an Arab to understand our pain or what the quran says about the Jews ,

I know what the quran says about the Jews, and I don't care much for it.

your British as i read in your profile , and we are not lashing at you for Iraq are we !!!

Firstly, Arabs are always moaning at the British involvement in Iraq. Secondly, I am not responsible for every action of the British government any more than Lirun is responsible for the actions of the Israeli government.

the Jew are doing a genocide in the Palestine

Then it must be the most cack-handed genocide in history, because the Palestinian population has been increasing every year for the past 5 decades. Isn't the point of a genocide to eradicate a people?

plus at the early years they refused peace

In the early days they were repeatedly attacked by Arab armies. It's a little difficult to accept peace when those with whom you must make peace keep trying to invade.

and now they still refuse peace and refuse to go back to the line of 1948, plus no listens to us as citicizens

I believe that many Israelis want peace, as do many Palestinians, but are prevented from achieving their wishes by those on both sides who do not want peace. Either way, it is of little surprise that the Israelis don't listen to you.

so why should we listen to him , what you want us to be happy that a guy from Iseral decided to join us and we have to be nice , he is a good "Ambassador " and we are not !!!,

As I said, he is demonstrating that he is intelligent, unfailingly polite, and is genuinely interested in an open conversation. You are demonstrating none of these.

if you all lash at UAE why are u living in it and getting paid major money which you can't make in your own country !!!

Unless the UAE army has since sometime this morning invaded and annexed the Russian island of Sakhalin, I believe I am not living in the UAE.

please don't bite the hand the feeds you and respect the country , culture and the people .

I will not respect the country of the UAE, because I dislike the manner in which it is governed; I will not respect the culture because what little is there seems inextricably linked to Islam, which I have no time for whatsoever; the people I will only respect on an individual basis, and on current performance, you are not one such individual.

let us if the this comment will be deleted or not , as i see Tim can use the word F...G,

I did? Where?

and lash at us like we are some kids and his comments were not removed .

You behave like a kid in trying to get a contributor booted off the forum because you are outclassed in every way.

Anonymous said...

Tim Newman said...
Stop being so ""fucking ""selfish about your own sense of grievance and resentment and wounded Arab pride and start actually thinking constructively 01 May, 2007 06:53

you don't even know what you write in blog , and since you dont live in UAE don't judge and since you don't care about Islam teaching then don't judge , read history Egypt and israel were at war and made peace ,but when it came to Palestine they refused , population increase is not a measure they are a nation with no state and are refugees the Israelis are not, why are you not tolerant and have a mind set and don't want to get out of the box do see what others have to say !!

Tim Newman said...

you don't even know what you write in blog ,

Erm, I was quoting somebody else, hence the italics.

and since you dont live in UAE don't judge

Okay, kindly don't judge Israel since you don't live there.

and since you don't care about Islam teaching then don't judge ,

I don't, unless it is foisted on me by illiberal adherents to the faith.

read history Egypt and israel were at war and made peace ,but when it came to Palestine they refused ,

Yes, I know Israel made peace with both Egypt and Jordan, which suggests it is not Israel which refuses to consider peace.

population increase is not a measure

No, but it serves well to demonstrate that genocide is not occurring.

they are a nation with no state and are refugees the Israelis are not,

They are mainly refugees because neighbouring Arabs refuse to offer them any other status. By contrast, many Israelis were refugees when they were forced out of their homes by various Arab countries in 1948, but Israel took them in.

why are you not tolerant and have a mind set and don't want to get out of the box do see what others have to say !!

Says the person who wants Lirun booted from the forum!!

Bill said...

Anonymous@08:46

I gotta applaud you on stating the truth [...]if you all lash at UAE why are u living in it[...]. You seem like a sensible person, therefore I'd like to point out this little gem to you -- read carefully.

We can leave when we want and go back to our home.
You have no where to go and no one wants you in their country.
Dwell on that and have a great day.

Anonymous said...

you are so funny, please do leave !!! we are proud of our country and unlike you we travel anywhere with our money as a tourist not to seek a job , so u sit and think about that and sit in your office and work before they fire you , and yes do call your bank to check your bank account!!!

poo said...

Considering this thread is way off topic here is another feeble attempt to bring it back on to topic.

Estimates of the demand for housing

Some info about salaries and where the $'s go and who sends what.

!-----
In 2005 the foreign labor force in the UAE remitted AED 35 billion, ($ 9.52 billion) , to their home countries. This is the amount for the UAE ONLY.
!-----
Who Remits What?

Even thought the average annual income of foreign workers in the UAE stands at AED 75,000, (~ $ 20,000) , the foreign workers on average remit up to 85% of their annual income. These numbers are skewed due to the fact that the majority of the workers, mainly in the Construction sector, others and Services, have an annual income of less than $4,500 . These particular workers have their housing, food and other necessities provided for by their respective employers. Therefore their savings are the highest. These categories also happen to the largest percentage of the workforce (63%).
[SOURCE: Ministry of labor/Economy]
!------
How much does the average worker remit?

On an average, in 2004 each foreign worker in the UAE remitted approximately $ 2981 per annum. Though a considerably small figure by western standards, it is offset by the sheer number of workers making remittances.

Year Average annual remittance per worker
(US $)
1975 1704
1980 3083
1985 3053
1990 2878
1995 2517
2000 2610
2004 2981
Remittance and saving averages by ethnicity

Asians and South Asians

This group makes up the largest percentage of the work force. However 95 % of this group works and resides in the UAE without the presence of their families. Hence they have a minimal expenditure. This group tends to remit on an average 90-95% of their income to their home countries.
Arabs

This group is the second largest group of foreign workers in the UAE. 67% of Arab labor resides in the country with their families. Their average annual remittance to the home country as a percentage of the annual income stands at 5-15%
Others

This category is the smallest as a percentage value, just 3 %,( 718,180), of the workforce. However it has the highest average annual income, (AED 360,000 ~ $ 98,000), in the country for any group. This group tends to have remittances as high as the first group, (Asians and South Asians), at around 80-85% of the annual income. This group is primarily made up of Europeans, North Americans and South African nationals.


[ blogger.com has does not allow posting html suitable for tables in comments, so guess pix will have to do ]

Now everyone go back to bickering about why some people own a certain strip of desert and why some dont

Anonymous said...

great post poo now everyone be gratefull that you are living in UAE to support you families back home and if you don't like it please resign and go home , like the movie says "ET go HOME"

Salem said...

Tim Newman said openly said that he doesnt respect the UAE or its Islamic culutre, how the hell is he still in this forum? The place is full of unwanted people, exactly like the UAE.

Anonymous said...

my point exactly salem

Tim Newman said...

Tim Newman said openly said that he doesnt respect the UAE or its Islamic culutre, how the hell is he still in this forum?

Presumably because the UAE thought police have not managed to secure an entry visa to the Russian Federation to execute my arrest.

Or maybe the moderators don't think that conforming to Islamic views is a prerequisite for participating in the forum.

samuraisam said...

Ok. this is beginning to get ridiculous.

There is a reason why no one is going to discuss palestine and israel here; because nothing anyone could say here hasn't been said 3 trillion times in the past. So stfu please. Go find another forum if you want to discuss that stuff.

This post is about UAE demographics; if your comment has to do with palestine, israel or some sort of a stupid argument based upon those two topics with someone else DON'T POST IT.

secretdubai said...

Follow up, Secret Dubai, you were not going to invite him if he wasn't from Israel?

Huh? No, the opposite if anything. I knew it was a controversial decision, but I believed as a matter of conscience that it was the right decision to make.

Anonymous said...

go home got removed and the F...G and other comments by Tim are still in the blog , so which is worse he saying he does not respect Islam , the holly book , and cutlures or Go home ....., ok all those who hate UAE please leave and go home

Anonymous said...

^^ I am wondering too

i, Bobo said...

"the holly book"

There's a holly book? Are talking Christmas holly or Lauren Holly?

Because I like both.

Anonymous said...

There's also Buddy Holly. So in addition to Buddy & Lauren, I also like The Holly and the Ivy too.

Anonymous said...

Apparently there are lots of Hollys' around

rosh said...

OK guys - please give the soul a break and be a little more considerate :)

English is not the first language in the UAE. How many of you can spell correctly in Arabic? :)

Can we have please have more insight and debate on Demographics?

poo said...

Ok here is a relevant post about demographics in the UAE,(Good luck viewing it if you are the GCC).

Lirun said...

thank you

Anonymous said...

DUE TO THE FOCUS ONLY ON LABOR ISSUES AND NOT REALIZING THAT THIS COUNTRY FACES A MAJOR LACK IN SKILLED WHITE COLLAR EMPLOYEES AND THAT THE PRIVATE SECTOR IS FACING A HUGE TURNOVER OF EMPLOYEES NOT WILLING TO STAY HERE DUE TO INFLATION AND LOW INCOME, THE DEMOGRAPHY WILL SUFFER BADLY IN THE NEXT FEW YEARS IF NOTHING IS DONE ABOUT IT. THIS DOESN'T MEAN THAT LABOR PROBLEMS ARE NOT IMPORTANT, YET THE WHOLE FACTOR OF DEMOGRAPHY IS A CONFUSING THING HERE.ITS STILL A NEW COUNTRY IT TAKES TIME TO SOLVE EVERY THING, HOWEVER SUCH ISSUES SHOULD BE TAKEN IN A REALISTIC PRACTICAL WAY, RATHER THAN IGNORING IT. GOOD LUCK WISH THE BEST.

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